"I could never send my dcs to grammar school....

[winkywinkola]

...because I think it's unfair on all those children who can't get in because they couldn't afford tutoring for 11+. But I will send them to prep and boarding school."

I was a bit perplexed to hear this from a mum at the school gate. Aibu?

A good comp is just as likely to get children into Oxbridge but a sec mod won't- those children have got the message that it is not for them aged 11yrs.( and the teaching is not geared for it)

Of course parents will do their best for their own child, we all do. It doesn't mean that we can't want the best opportunities for all children- regardless of the lottery of birth.

Of course OP doesn't have a problem with it, she is buying into it and at least freeing up a place for someone who can't afford it.

Sorry not OP, who seems to find it odd, but the mum at her school gate.

Mine had no tutoring at and passed a grammar school. We came late to the party (from abroad) so were quite worried. I think mine was the only non-tutored child who passed though

at all , sorry (my keyboard is being weird!)

I do think tutoring from year 4 seems like a lot of pressure on the child but I also understand that places with only 1 GS locally are hard to get in to. We are lucky that we have 3 grammar schools in our area. I'm still on the fence as to whether 11+ should be the way in to GS or if they should just select the "top sets" from all schools. Maybe then there would be more kids getting in to GS? I know that last year there were 34 "empty" spaces at our local mixed GS!!!

Hi 2stripedsocks Just an ordinary primary school in Australia.
I know because there was a school meeting about the 11 plus, shortly before and parents were asked to raise their hands if they didn't have a tutor. Three children in the year 6 class (just commencing) did not.

We had a tutor from yr 4 so there wasn't any pressure. It wasn't to pass a test just a learning support. He has passed the test and we still have a tutor. We have 4 DC. They definitely won't all be suitable for the Grammar but they will all have a tutor. We value their education and I think that one on one time that we can't give them personally is of great benefit.

If we had been in UK in the year leading up to the exams, we would have used a tutor too.

There will always be unfairness in life so arguing that the school system should be fair is pointless. It's unfair that some children are born into families with 7 children, no parents in work and one parent reliant on illegal drugs but there's nothing that can be done about it. As a young high flier in education I campaigned relentlessly to give children from poor backgrounds the support they needed to do well in school. Occasionally I succeeded but this was always when the parents were very involved and wanted the best for their children even if they were poorly educated themselves. Unfortunately a large percentage of children could not be helped out of poverty because they were held back by their families who had no aspirations for themselves or their children. It takes a very strong child to succeed against these odds. Therefore the changes that have to be made are changes to family life way before the 11+ rears its head. And this would require massive policy change over decades.

Oh I was very ideological when I was young and child free. However now I have a 4 year old who was born with many medical problems. I have also had to battle an NHS system that supports those who can fight and shout the loudest in the most educated voice to get my daughter the help she needed so another unfair system. With all the support my DD has at home and that we have battled for and paid for she is now starting Reception class in September a whole year ahead of where she should be. We are a household that loves and values education and this rubs off on our children. We have always made learning fun and so our children love to do a page of sums with us before going off to build a den in the garden. Learning is just intrinsic.

My children will be going to a private prep school which does prep for the 11+. They will also have tutoring from Year 4 and I will support them at home to get into grammar school. I've spent a lot of time in the local SM and there are many children there I would not want mine to mix with- that's just a fact regardless of whether that makes me a snob. I want the best for my children and I make absolutely no apologies for that.

"Of course parents will do their best for their own child, we all do. It doesn't mean that we can't want the best opportunities for all children- regardless of the lottery of birth."

This. Oh, this.

The biggest unfair advantage as regards Oxbridge is going to a private school which getting back to the op the lady in question seems not to have a problem with. Funny that.

To be fair, the 'lady in question' in the OP is a military family.

You don't get 'private school allowance', you get boarding school allowance.
You are only entitled to that for as long as you are 'mobile'; for officers, this means a move of location app every 2 years, across different education systems within Britain & abroad.

I don't begrudge the lady in the op in the slightest, she just wants continuity of education for her children.

Bertrand going way back but in answer to your question: yes it is a super selective and a good one at that but good L5s are the benchmark. Of course the school doesn't require more than good L5s.

I'm sure you can look at the exact numbers for any school if you wish but the important thing is a) that the numbers of DC on FSM match the numbers in the area who obtain good L5s and b) that efforts are made to identify those FSM DC capable of obtaining good L5 and try to help them actually obtain that level and to actually apply.

I completely agree that there are many households above that level who are relatively disadvantaged. Unlike another poster who claimed the car park was full of flash cars I can say out park has a good share of bangers. Plenty of parents have DC both at the grammar and at the comp rather than at the private schools in the nearest city. Bertrand wholly misrepresents our parental body although I don't have knowledge of what it's like in Kent - bit it sounds horrible. She shouldn't generalize though.

I was a forces child too 2Striped, so are my kids - I do often wonder if moving schools actually helps in some weird way tbh.

It made me, my sister and our respective children much more resilient & independent.
A mix of different teaching styles & environments has made me more adaptable too, I think, and not afraid of or resistant to change.

StripedSocks I'd further add that the comps which are the alternative are not 'leafy' comps.

I've just totted it up (after my last post), I went to 5 primaries & 2 secondaries, across 3 countries.

I started secondary at a grammar (in '86, in an area where the 11+ was still going strong at the time, so before the tutoring etc of today).
I did my first 3 yrs there then the last 3 in a Scottish comp.

Overall, I preferred the comp on a personal level as it was more varied and not as stifling; the grammar was great for the academia but shit for everything else, and luckily I was good across the board so didn't feel like a failure in some subjects.

It was very strange though to go from being firmly in the middle intelligence wise, to the top set in everything at my next school.

2Striped, the best 3 years of my life were from aged 6 to 9 roaming wild in the bondu in Cyprus!

I had so much freedom, we all did.

No, the only primary I went to in Scotland was in Elgin.
I did my last years of secondary in Fife.