...to think that religion wouldn’t be so prevalent if parents and schools didn’t indoctrinate children?

[WhatALoadOfOldBollocks]

Just that really. I was brought up in a religiously neutral environment (at home at least), which allowed me to make my own mind up, yet so often children are raised according to the beliefs of their parents, which is fair enough if the teachings are taught as theories rather than facts. I have often wondered how many people, if raised in religiously neutral environments, would choose faith over science for want of a better phrase. My theory is that more would reject than adopt faith if not indoctrinated from an early age, but that's just my musings.

B. Those who start with no religious knowledge are more likely to fall for cultish groups and religions in later life. IMO they prey on the ignorant and vulnerable.

Are you insinuating that people without faith are ignorant/vulnerable? Really?

Most Christians accept both of these to be scientific fact without causing any issues with their faith.

Having read the bible thoroughly over the years I really cannot understand how the Big Bang is compatible with creationism. Evolution didn't occur in 6000 odd years for one.

"And what you call indoctrination, I call teaching values that I value."
But it's possible to teach values without teaching religious beliefs as facts don't you think? It feels a bit like you're inferring that athiests might have trouble understanding how to be decent human beings.

"I've read that people brought up with no view whatsoever on faith are more likely to join cults than those brought up with either an active faith or a literate atheism. I don't know how reliable the source was, but it makes sense to me."
It wasn't a study conducted by the Church of England was it

Fruitcider - a lot of religious groups, including extreme members of all Abrahamic faiths, prey on those who know very little. That's why a huge proportion of radicalised Muslims in the UK have come from completely secular backgrounds or have even been converts. Those with a bit of knowledge are able to tell the extremists where to get off...

Fruitcider, what became the Big Bang Theory was originally proposed by a Catholic priest, George LeMaitre.

Sam - that's why EDUCATION is important. Chistian INSTRUCTION in non-faith schools doesn't help at all.

Having read the bible thoroughly over the years I really cannot understand how the Big Bang is compatible with creationism. Evolution didn't occur in 6000 odd years for one

The accepted rationale I believe is the bible, being written so many years later, got the timescale wrong. The world wasn't created in 7 days, but over several billion years, which fits more with evolution.

I am a religious scientist. It doesn't mean I accept that the teachings of organised religion are correct. That is man's interpretation of faith. But I work with DNA and molecular biology, and it is so intricate, delicate, and freaking amazing I struggle to accept it's all evolved by accident- which leaves design....

At it's most basic faith is belief in a higher being, call it mother nature, god, allah, yahweh, whatever. Religion is a human concept- rituals and teachings to help make sense of the world and impose order on the population. In a lot of ways I see faith separate from religion- you don't need to be a muslim or catholic to believe, same as not going to church doesn't make you an atheist.

Indoctrination is not helpful in those instances Sam.

I am an atheist, I have no religious background, but I am educated enough about religion to understand that the Westbrook baptist church and Daesh are horrible. I know about the yazidis and the genocide by Daesh. I understand what's happening in the Middle East. I get the dispute between Palestine and Israel.

_I do not need to be indoctrinated to protect me from these things.
_
I know about them because my atheist parents taught me about the world. I also have a moral compass, despite being atheist

Reallyanotherone well at least your ideas seem logical. My father in law (preacher/pastor) insists that dinosaur fossils were placed in the ground by the devil to test his faith he literally believes that the world is 6000 years old. Although the wedge document determines that intelligent design was made up to try and indoctrinate children at school in America...

Yet, you don't know that scientists can be religious? Why not? Were you taught that they couldn't be?

whataloadof thanks for quoting me.

I am in a mixed religion mariage and we happily raise our kids with knowledge of both religions, and the knowledge that they will decide for themselves what they want to believe as they grow - including choosing not to believe.

It absolutely drives me MAD when people say 'this is how I am raising my kids, this is how I was raised and therefore everyone should be the same and do what I do'

We are not the same. I will raise my kids however I want and I will not judge you or anyone else for making your own deeply personal choices.

Maybe live and let live....

No of course I wasn't told that scientists couldn't be religious! I just don't understand how someone with great scientific knowledge and accepts scientific Theories can also hold faith in unproven evidence.

I wonder if there is actual scientific/social scientific evidence on 'atheist children' being more vulnerable to cults. Many atheists have very strong BS detectors - and while tolerant and full of interest in other belief systems and with highly moral lifestyles (however you define that!!) - they wouldn't touch evangelistic sect-propenents with a barge pole.

The only person i know who was taken into/by a cult was a brother of a friend who had been brought up in a strict Scottish Highland C of S family. He was eventually saved by his family but it was a very distressing experience for all of them.

YANBU at all OP. Religion is a belief system that is taught to children in the same way that other beliefs and values (good and bad) are taught to them - they aren't born believing in one god or another.

Facts (such as scientists can be religious) don't need your understanding. They are facts regardless.

You can be Christian without believing that everything you read in the bible is actual fact.

Maybe live and let live..*

I agree with that. Keep religion out of schools.

Your mumsnet name says exactly what you are doing

I think if you are truly looking for balance for your children then to have you teaching them what you think as an atheist family and to have school teaching them the Christian viewpoint is surely a better balance than them just hearing what you think.
FWIW I grew up in a Christian family and decided I believed it.
My husband grew up with atheist parents and in a progressive private school with no 'indoctrination'!! and as soon as he got to Uni and started discussing faith with new friends he became a Christian. His parents excommunicated him they were so upset!
We have 3 kids. Oldest not really sure, younger 2 think they probably believe but none of them are baptised yet as that is their choice. We would not refer to them as Christians until they actively choose that path for themselves.

I purposely chose a non relegous school for dd and yet she still comes home telling me 'Jesus is real, Mrs xx told me so'!

Me and hubby teach our 2 that people have faiths and that's fine and to respect it but it is faith not fact and it's not something mummy and daddy believe in but she can if she wants

When we lost my brother and Nan both times she came home asking why I didn't say they were in heaven like her teacher said. I explained they had gone to the sky to look after the stars, clouds and moon etc.. And had to explain yet and why my belief is different- needles to say I have had words with her teacher!

Why assume that the values I try to teach are faith values? Atheists have values too. Atheists can be as ethical as people of faith, and people of faith can behave unethically.

louw1988 if you are in the UK there is no such thing as a " non religious school".

The best we have is " non -denominational" which still has to deliver acts of christian based collective worship.

Schools definitely do this! My son came home talking about God one day (he's only 5) and he has to say grace before meals. I explained to him that some people believe in God and others don't, as for saying grace I told him that if he wishes then he can give thanks to the Earth instead of God as the Earth provides us with food etc. My son has decided he doesn't believe in God, if he changes his mind that is up to him but I refuse to have him told point blank that God exists without offering him the alternative view. I went to school in a Roman Catholic convent, the nuns still lived on the school grounds but didn't teach there any more (thankfully), I remember being bored to tears during sermons and found all this talk of hell quite upsetting.

Given that around 75% (last survey I'm aware of) of people follow the religion of their parents, no, YANBU. Whilst there are those who become religious later in life, they are a very small minority compared to those who don't deviate from their upbringing.

I'd say that I was raised "religiously neutral" - it simply was not discussed. That doesn't presuppose Atheism either: it was simply a non-issue. There was a Bible in the house, but we were not told that any of it was true or false. As it was, I couldn't distinguish it from Aesop's Fables as a child and er ... I still can't.

Stories of the world's first zombie, food falling from the sky, talking animals and plant-life, 900 year old humans, and all sorts of fantastic events have no business being taught as fact. That's a quick way to block critical thinking at a young age in many.

pearlylum I am in the uk and no it is not a religious school. They teach RE but they are supposed to be completly in-biast
My mil's school she teaches at around the corner is the same