...to think that religion wouldn’t be so prevalent if parents and schools didn’t indoctrinate children?

[WhatALoadOfOldBollocks]

Just that really. I was brought up in a religiously neutral environment (at home at least), which allowed me to make my own mind up, yet so often children are raised according to the beliefs of their parents, which is fair enough if the teachings are taught as theories rather than facts. I have often wondered how many people, if raised in religiously neutral environments, would choose faith over science for want of a better phrase. My theory is that more would reject than adopt faith if not indoctrinated from an early age, but that's just my musings.

[sashh]

I don't think it's any less correct to say god doesn't exist, than does.
ch god are you talking about? I have a statue of Ganesh in my home.

go to church a couple of times a year for mithering Sunday, Easter and Christmas but that's about it.

LOL I know it is a typo, but mithering Sunday fits so well with 'god botherer'.

[Stepmotherofdragons]

I grew up within the c of e religion. In fact surrounded by it, church holidays, youth groups , Christian youth holidays. I more or less grew up in a theological college. I have had the most comprehensive Christian upbringing a child could have. I still can't find jesus in my heart and trust me I tried so hard to find him.

I knew many people with families who were totally non religious who became heavily involved with the church, my dad being one of them.

I am now an agnostic/atheist depending on what day you get me on. I want to believe, people with true faith emit such happiness, I am envious of that. However my rational mind keeps getting in the way, science and logic win for me every time.

Even the most religious of upbringings doesn't guarantee a holy child by any means and the most unbelieving parents can have totally devout children.

[WhatALoadOfOldBollocks]

"I think most important is that you teach your children to learn and question everything they do learn."
Yes yes yes, absolutely this. I think it's vital children are taught critical thinking as it's such an important life skill. Just consider how much better things could be if people didn't believe everything they read in the mainstream media for example!

[scaryteacher]

The two things for RE are learning about religion and learning from religion. The first is easy, it's the what, where and why of religious belief. The second is harder, so we talk about the numinous ('things that make you go 'ooh'' as per the MaccyD advert), about what faith means to people, looking at Desmond Tutu and Mother Teresa for example, and how it shows itself. You can talk about dedication, devotion (I won't channel Dire Straits for the rest of that), religious experience etc, but as someone who is firmly on the fence about God, how can I push a belief that I don't have?

I like teaching Buddhism the most as it seems to me to be a philosophy that we can all relate to in one form or another.

Teaching the ethical stuff like abortion and euthanasia is also interesting as you can relate it to current debates and how we legislate on these issues.

[AuroraBora]

I think most important is that you teach your children to learn and question everything they do learn. Teach them to not always take something or someone at face value and that is ok to change your mind about what you believe.

At age 7 I probably believed in all of the bible stories told to us at school, but not in a religious way, more in a "this happened a very long time ago" way. I probably would have expressed disbelief at say Noah's ark because I would have been bright enough to realise that a world wide flood isn't really feasible.

As I got older I realised that the god that the vicar spoke about in assembly didn't align with what I believed, and then as I became more aware of the rest of the world and all the problems we have, and who I was as a person, I realised I am definitely not a Christian and in general I don't think organised religion is for me. Particularly those that promote heaven and hell.

I hope to let my DC learn in the same way.

[SouperSal]

This is how I think schools should be. I think it's important they learn so they can respect others beliefs but it should be taught as beliefs only - my dd's teacher clearly us religious herself and I think it's wrong she tells them it's fact

I completely agree.

[Louw1988]

Nope, they don't. They have assemblies where I heard an awful lot of Paulo Coelho read out as the HoY found him inspirational. The schools in which I taught didn't have religious services. RE was taught as an academic discipline and from my point of view, as giving the students some degree of religious literacy which they would need when they crossed the Tamar, and went to university, as they would encounter creeds and cultures that we just don't get in Cornwall.

This is how I think schools should be. I think it's important they learn so they can respect others beliefs but it should be taught as beliefs only - my dd's teacher clearly us religious herself and I think it's wrong she tells them it's fact

[scaryteacher]

Actually the vast majority of schools in England have religious services Nope, they don't. They have assemblies where I heard an awful lot of Paulo Coelho read out as the HoY found him inspirational. The schools in which I taught didn't have religious services. RE was taught as an academic discipline and from my point of view, as giving the students some degree of religious literacy which they would need when they crossed the Tamar, and went to university, as they would encounter creeds and cultures that we just don't get in Cornwall.

[Louw1988]

SouperSal I told them about the stars clouds etc.. Because my brother commited suicude and I wanted them to feel like he was watching over them now in some way. I believe he is but I'm far from religious!
And sorry I was wrong in the assembly statement, they do mention religious festivals - all of them equally but do not have prays or hymns or focus on one religion which is exactly why I chose them. I want my children to learn about it so they can respect others views but I do not want them being told any religious is fact

[SouperSal]

And they have assembly but do not refer to God or religion in them at all

How do you know?

Actually the vast majority of schools in England have religious services, and it's still absolutely the law to in Wales. (I'm working on the HT of DD's school - things are changing slowly.)

If you want your kids to practice a religion, take them yourself. No need for it to happen in schools.

[SouperSal]

I explained they had gone to the sky to look after the stars, clouds and moon etc..

Why? That's as much of a lie as being on a cloud in heaven!

[DioneTheDiabolist]

But not all schools do deliver collective worship.

[LifeIsGoodish]

All state schools that are not VA by a non-Christian religious organisation have to have a daily act of worship "of a broadly Christian nature". You can do this without any mention of God, Jesus, Bible. Many schools manage to do this.

[pearlylum]

Louw1988 a happy accident.
Our local non faith state primary has a born again christian as head. Many of his staff are christian as a result.
The law allows heads to deliver as much religion as they like.

[pearlylum]

louw1988, that isn't true.

State non faith schools are not secular, they are non denominational.
There are no secular state schools in the UK. All state schools have to deliver collective christian worship by law.

[LifeIsGoodish]

As for the vulnerability to cults, my comment was about being active and literate in a faith or a position of atheism. Ignorance leaves you vulnerable, not atheism.

I don't think the source was a CoE organisation, though it was a cult-rescue group.

[Louw1988]

And they have assembly but do not refer to God or religion in them at all

[Louw1988]

pearlylum I am in the uk and no it is not a religious school. They teach RE but they are supposed to be completly in-biast
My mil's school she teaches at around the corner is the same

[Godstopper]

Given that around 75% (last survey I'm aware of) of people follow the religion of their parents, no, YANBU. Whilst there are those who become religious later in life, they are a very small minority compared to those who don't deviate from their upbringing.

I'd say that I was raised "religiously neutral" - it simply was not discussed. That doesn't presuppose Atheism either: it was simply a non-issue. There was a Bible in the house, but we were not told that any of it was true or false. As it was, I couldn't distinguish it from Aesop's Fables as a child and er ... I still can't.

Stories of the world's first zombie, food falling from the sky, talking animals and plant-life, 900 year old humans, and all sorts of fantastic events have no business being taught as fact. That's a quick way to block critical thinking at a young age in many.

[SemiNormal]

Schools definitely do this! My son came home talking about God one day (he's only 5) and he has to say grace before meals. I explained to him that some people believe in God and others don't, as for saying grace I told him that if he wishes then he can give thanks to the Earth instead of God as the Earth provides us with food etc. My son has decided he doesn't believe in God, if he changes his mind that is up to him but I refuse to have him told point blank that God exists without offering him the alternative view. I went to school in a Roman Catholic convent, the nuns still lived on the school grounds but didn't teach there any more (thankfully), I remember being bored to tears during sermons and found all this talk of hell quite upsetting.

[pearlylum]

louw1988 if you are in the UK there is no such thing as a " non religious school".

The best we have is " non -denominational" which still has to deliver acts of christian based collective worship.

[LifeIsGoodish]

Why assume that the values I try to teach are faith values? Atheists have values too. Atheists can be as ethical as people of faith, and people of faith can behave unethically.

[Louw1988]

I purposely chose a non relegous school for dd and yet she still comes home telling me 'Jesus is real, Mrs xx told me so'!

Me and hubby teach our 2 that people have faiths and that's fine and to respect it but it is faith not fact and it's not something mummy and daddy believe in but she can if she wants

When we lost my brother and Nan both times she came home asking why I didn't say they were in heaven like her teacher said. I explained they had gone to the sky to look after the stars, clouds and moon etc.. And had to explain yet and why my belief is different- needles to say I have had words with her teacher!

[vdbfamily]

I think if you are truly looking for balance for your children then to have you teaching them what you think as an atheist family and to have school teaching them the Christian viewpoint is surely a better balance than them just hearing what you think.
FWIW I grew up in a Christian family and decided I believed it.
My husband grew up with atheist parents and in a progressive private school with no 'indoctrination'!! and as soon as he got to Uni and started discussing faith with new friends he became a Christian. His parents excommunicated him they were so upset!
We have 3 kids. Oldest not really sure, younger 2 think they probably believe but none of them are baptised yet as that is their choice. We would not refer to them as Christians until they actively choose that path for themselves.

[Muskey]

Your mumsnet name says exactly what you are doing