To have certain expectations of autistic brother?

[sniffle12]

My tenage brother has been diagnosed with Asperger's. This was brilliant news at the time as it came after years of bullying and social rejection and he finally feels he can now explain to people why he is the way he is and hopefully get a more understanding reaction as well as the support he needs.

However I've begun to feel that it's now being used as a get out of jail free card for too many things. In my view he's still a teenage boy with all the natural, human faults which come with that - he hates to tidy/clean, eats for England, lives in his room, avoids family events and anything which he doesn't want to do at that precise moment, and spends money like its going out of fashion. Just as I was at that age.

Since the diagnosis, all of this now seems to be going unchallenged. When I question this I'm told 'He can't help it' 'He feels overwhelmed' 'you forget he has Asperger's'. While I'm fully aware of this, I don't think we should stop expecting him to develop some degree of conscientiousness as we would any teenage boy - obviously at the right times, right approach, and in small steps, as I do recognise that his response to demands is also part of his Asperger's.

AIBU?

i think reading "This is my child" campaign is a good place to start.

Not even going to read the thread as I'm sure it's full of lovely disablist posts about "SN not being an excuse"

I think it is a valid question and I don't think YABU.
My son is autistic and has moderate learning disabilities, but is maturing into a wonderful, independent (almost) teenager, with the support of myself, family and school. Part of this is because I treat him similarly to how I would any other child, including my daughter.

He has chores to do around the house, he keeps his room tidy, he helps in the garden and he pays for things independently in shops etc. Sometimes he moans and groans, says he can't do it and panics etc. Sometimes I have to give instructions on every little thing, such as how to hang up his clothes, even when he has done this every day for years. And thats fine, as long as he does it. Unless he does something out of the ordinary, I don't particularly praise this either. I want it to be a given that he does these every day normal things.
I have never used his autism as an excuse for not doing things because I believe he can, just sometimes he needs a little extra support. If I pander to him, I feel like it will make life difficult in the future for me and him. We have rules, routines and expectations and it makes life a lot easier.

This makes me sound really hard and cold, I promise I'm not, and he knows how proud I am of his achievements. He may never be able to function on his own as an adult but I will do my hardest to ensure he gets close.

However, I am well aware that the spectrum is huge and every child on it is different, so for some it may not be as simple.

I very rarely agree with the 'trigger warning' thing (apart from actual ptsd!), but think some of these posts should bloody have them!

I think it's a personal topic, and I only wrote from my perspective about my child, I can't say the same would work for every child...

It's impossible to answer this without knowing your brother and the nature or severity of his aspergers. (can you even be diagnosed with aspergers any more? I thought it had been removed as a condition now and merged in with ASD?)

In some cases, you would not be being unreasonable. I had a very, very self aware and analytical little boy in my class a few years ago who was both autistic and naughty - two separate things. When things went wrong for him I was able to say things like 'do you think this was something you found because you have autism or was this bad/inappropriate/silly behaviour?' And he would generally answer pretty truthfully!

But in many other cases you would be being unreasonable. Your brother is going through a period of huge adjustment, working out who he is, what his capabilities are, what he can and can't deal with, what he likes and doesn't like etc. And he's also a teenager. He's likely doing the best he can.

"This thread is not in a vacuum. There have been increased disingenuous threads regarding disability where the op throws the grenade in and runs. Mnhq are aware of this and have a new policy regarding disabilist posts because of it.

It may well be genuine, in which case the best place for the discussion is not aibu."

This.

Brexit stopped it for while but now the fallout is dying down on here, back those threads come.

Sensitive Where has the phrase SN brigade been used? I've read the whole thread and not seen it.

Anyway, My DD (10) has ASD, and she does use this to excuse some bad behaviours - such as physical violence against her 6 YO sister (and me) and destroying furniture, toys etc.
Her condition IS the reason for this behaviour. But I don't believe that all of this behaviour is inevitable. We are trying hard to calm things down: with anger management techniques, modelling good behaviour, star charts, rewards and have small, short, immediate sanctions for the worst behaviours etc. This does help, but progress will be long and slow.

I think patience, help, consistency and modelling/ praising good behaviours is the best way to help, rather than having expectations. It takes a long time, as a family member to learn and recognise how to do this. It must be very difficult for your parents to know what to pick up on and what to let go. It's still quite new to them. It's certainly still difficult for me.

What I've come to realise is that my DD (it will be different for others on the spectrum, I know) genuinely doesn't know or understand many things that are obvious to others.
However, worst thing for me is not her behaviour, but the confusion, hurt and anger that she feels daily in being in a world that she doesn't fully understand.

Asperger's dx still exists in the UK.

He finally feels he can now explain to people why he is the way he is and hopefully get a more understanding reaction as well as the support he needs

I'm sorry but it sounds like he needs to start with you.

I appreciate that it must be irritating to live with someone who exhibits to a large extent normal teen behaviour but can trot out Asbergers as an "excuse" for not complying with social norms.

But take a step back from what is irritating you and try to recognise that this is not a "get out of jail free card" but something that will have a profound effect on his life, his relationships with other people, possibly his ability to enjoy social occasions and his employment.

Then take a deep breath and stop resenting the fact that your brother isn't getting the hard time that you did as a teen about cleaning up your room and being dragged to family weddings.

It's quite possible that unnecessary allowances are being made while his diagnosis is worked through but cut him some slack fgs !

My dd is being assessed for Aspergers/ASC in a couple of weeks (finally!).

She struggles to cope in social situations, really struggles to form friendships and really only copes in a group of two or three people rather than a crowd.

She finds life overwhelming in the extreme. She's 10 and at this age I can still say, you are coming with me and we put in place strategies to help her cope - we have a calender with EVERYTHING written on it that is happening, I have to google every new place we are going to and print it all off so she knows what to expect, she has a book which she writes things in so if she's going for a day trip she can ask me her questions and then write the answers down and refer back if she's stressing. She has an emotion chart on the fridge, a diary to write down how she's feeling and comfort toys, pillows and music.

However, I know that when she's a teen this could become very difficult to manage and that's why I'm desperately trying to get things in place for her now, keep her routine as stable as possible and don't force situations on her unless they are essential. She has an orthodontist appointment on friday, first one and she's going into a complete panic over it already.

The best thing about dd (apart from being so hysterically funny) is her tidiness. Her room is immaculate, she knows where everything is and doesn't like mess. Unlike her teenage sister.

Give your brother a break. If he needs to tidy his room, offer to help him. It can be utterly overwhelming for a teen to sort their room, never mind one with autism.

People whose children have disabilities can be more disabilist (I don't mean anyone on this thread btw) than others. It doesn't stop them.

and they have generally said that an ASD diagnosis may explain some aspects of behaviour but shouldn't be used as an excuse for poor behaviour generally

Depends on the child.

Maybe they should read this is my child section on behaviour disorders not being just used as excuse for bad behaviour.

If they say that they certainly are being disablist against kids with different needs to their own.

Knew I shouldn't have read the posts.

My parents read the daily mail imagine how well they took my diagnosis...

I think this thread has some really useful thoughts and points of view in it. I hope it doesn't get deleted. there are some MN threads so full of hatred, judgement and bigotry that they could make me cry but this isn't one of them.

From where I'm sitting I don't think the OP is encouraging people to 'slag off people with disabilities'. I think she's asking a question that is very relevant to many, many people in similar situations. It's a question that people struggle with...which is being answered here by people with ASD and their carers, friends and families, therefore from many different points of view. It's helpful.

I'd only say that it would be better placed in a specific topic because IMO this isn't a question that can properly be answered by anyone with strong opinions but no experience.

OP/MNHQ can it be moved?

YANBU.

I have two children with high functioning autism and have been living it for almost nine years. At the beginning I was like the OP and thought there still has to be standards, limits, restrictions etc. I wish I hadn't made us all so miserable with that frame of mind because it mostly came from others and their expectations rather than my own and my children's. Over the years o have relaxed completely and found that my children have become really, rather lovely kind considerate people without a load of rules about How Things Should Be in place. They occasionally need a nudge because they forget or it doesn't come naturally but in general being relaxed and LEFT ALONE to find their own pace where possible has worked wonders and everyone who knows them agrees. Leave him alone for a bit and let him find his way.

Oh and don't use terms like "used as a get out of jail free card" whoever did that, It's massively arsehole-ish.

Ds's most difficult and challenging behaviours are undoubtedly caused by his asd ( that is specialists saying that not just me). Of course we are working on them but they may never be eliminated entirely.

Nicki, it was the op

Yes there is a limit to how far reasonable accomadations go but if you are seriously implying that you targeted the symptoms of her disability then she should have taken legal action

Absolutely wrong, the onus is on the employer to make 'reasonable' adjustments, if someone is clearly unable to do their job despite the employer trying everything to accommodate their condition, then the employer is absolutely within their rights to end employment on the grounds of capability.

The tribunals accept that for someone trying to run a business there is a limit to what they can do, without it affecting the business's ability to operate.

My DS has ASD and is quite high functioning.

We have recently had some drama around my DH believing that he 'refuses' to do the fairly basic chores he has to because he is 'using his autism' as a kind of get out jail free card. To the point that I was going to leave the marriage. He's now going to access some parenting help, specifically parenting help around parenting teens with ASD.

DS has said that he finds certain jobs overwhelming when seen as a whole. He finds it useful to have things broken down into smaller pieces as a kind of micro-schedule for those jobs. Might your brother find that helpful if you ask him?

Sadly for you, your feelings don't trump his needs. You can feel exasperated, tired, annoyed or whatever else you like, it doesn't mean that he won't need help and guidance with certain aspects of his life until he can hopefully take the reins himself.

DS2 will probably never be able to be completely independent and that's fine, but with the help and support he needs and wants, he can become as independent as it is possible to be. People suggesting he might do certain things to 'get out of jail free' doesn't help him to do that, and just makes the person who thinks like that resentful and angry to no end.

It's hard to say if YABU or not because each person will be affected so differently, depending on where they are on the scale.

There has to be a balance though so that his needs are understood and met whilst at the same time preparing him for the wider world, where not everyone will be as knowing and caring as his family.

My DN has aspergers, is high functioning - it's not obvious to everyone. Dsis manages to respect his limits but instils the basics like any parent of a teenager should. He hates showering for example - like some teenagers do - but for him there is the added element of sensory issues to deal with, so it's not a simple case of issuing an ultimatum and forcing him into the shower like you might the average teenager because they need to learn good personal hygiene. Sure, she doesn't want him going to job interviews later in life reeking of BO because he lacks that awareness/discipline. But theres more to consider. I think you need to trust your DBs primary carers (parents I presume?) and that they are doing what's best....it sounds like it's early days and you are all still learning.

I have a brother (22 years old now) diagnosed with ASD at 15, I show many of the signs myself but was never formally diagnosed, I don't live at home with him, but my older brother does. I am very sympathetic because i have a clue about how difficult it can be to function with ASD but my older brother is always berating my younger one for using it as a get out of jail free card.

I always say - its a reason, not an excuse and there are some things that can be done and others that can't.

My ASD brother will never be able to function NT in social situations and will always be overwhelmed and panic in crowds. Depending on the person they will be hyper sensitive to things that NT people can dismiss and simply would be unable to deal with too much new input - but that sensitivity can vary by person. Common things are being distracted by little irrelevances because they stand out in your vision because you can't filter irrelevant things out. Being a supertaster and being very fussy about food as a result, being unable to deal with loud sounds. depending on how supportive you want to be you could try to find out what are his panic triggers and limitations and sensitivies are.

My oldest non ASD brother should know better as he has ADHD and dyslexia and so had had some of the same difficulties, but he ffels taht he was never given a pass with his reading and writing or his behavouir, so his younger brother shouldnt with his struggles, i think my older brother is blind to some of the accomadations we make for him and the ways in which he has limited himslef by not seeking the help he could. he pushes my younger brother and causes breakdowns and gets mad at my parents for molly coddling him all because he will not make any allowances.

On the other hand my parents do molly coddle my younger brother a bit, he has things that are childish that he never grew out of, small example but he would not pour milk in his own cereal bowl at the age of 20 as mum had always done that and he has resistance to change, my older brother made a big thing about this and many fights later my younger brother is now doing it himself and I use it as a reminder that sometimes he can do things he thinks he can't that the change will not be that bad just because he doesn't want it, and if he tries, if he pushes himself through the panic he can do it.

On the third hand he is never going to go to a concert even though he wants to as that would simply induce too much panic with the crowds.

TLDR version, find out what his limits are, try to push himon small things but try to have sympathy when he cant do it, its not the simple YABU/YANBU you are looking for, there is no one size solution to all of the things its going to take work to understand.

But you are in a position to opt out of these struggles which would not be unreasonable give he is not your problem as you do not live there but in that case YABU to comment/critisise on what he can an can't do if you aren't going to find out about his struggles. Its up to you.