Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask ex for child maintainence

109 replies

msatlantis · 05/07/2016 18:23

I separated from my ex P in January, half way through my pregnancy. He was emotionally abusive, I couldn't take any more, and I didn't want my baby growing up to the tune of his mood swings and viewing his behaviour as the norm.

We lived together in London (his flat). When we split up I stayed in the flat for a bit only when he didn't need it (though he still insisted I still paid toward it as I had been doing). When he needed to stay at the flat I had to find myself temporary accommodation (awful in third trimester of pregnancy.) When my maternity leave commenced I moved to Edinburgh - my family are here and offered support, I also own a property here. I would have been completely on my own had I stayed in London, with ex-P perhaps dropping in when convenient for him to see baby. Ex-P was not happy about me moving to Edinburgh. Said I was making it 'impossible' for him to have a relationship with his child. I understand moving 500 miles away from baby's dad was not ideal, but I needed the support of my family and he had behaved badly toward me. I may have to return to London when my maternity leave finishes in any event.

DS was born in May. Ex-P has not seen him, though I have not put up any barrier to this. Actually, I'm sad for my DS that he hasn't visited. I had to register the birth myself. Since the birth we have had one phone-call. The call was civilised but ex-P made no mention of contributing toward his son's upkeep.

Following the call I applied to the CMS to calculate child maintainence. I didn't want to have the conversation with ex-P as I had a feeling I'd be made to feel bad/unreasonable for asking for money and if ex-P did agree to contribute there's no way he would willingly agree to pay the amount the CMS calculated he should be paying (£750 per month). The amount the CMS calculated is based on ex-P's salary which is about £100k p/a.

Today ex-P has text to say he is 'most disappointed/surprised' to have received a letter from CMS. And that if I 'need/want money we can easily resolve it between ourselves'. He then says: 'it would be better for all concerned to deal with things in an open and above board way and to talk like adults. This is a very disappointing way to conduct our engagement over very difficult and important issues, but I am happy to keep things official from now on if that is what you have decided?'

I don't know how to respond. His text makes me feel bad. I'd think I'd rather keep things amicable, but I know in doing so ex-P will not agree to pay the same amount calculated by the CMS. The amount will also not be subject to any annual review. I also don't need the money right now, but I will do when my maternity pay stops and certainly when I return to work as I will need a full time nanny.

Have I been unreasonable in applying directly to the CMS? And would I be acting unreasonably in continuing to go through the official CMS channel rather than trying to reach and agreement with ex-P? I don't know what to do and how to respond to his message.

OP posts:
thepothasboiledover · 06/07/2016 17:24

Don't let him change your mind - he is trying to control you and will not pay willingly let CMS make him pay for his responsibilities

eyebrowsonfleek · 06/07/2016 20:42

Good that you're not backing down. With my ex, I tell myself to keep it "professional" and pretend it's a boss whose an arsehole so short and concise is the only way.
WineWine

notapizzaeater · 06/07/2016 20:49

Good for you, your DS is entitled to it.

beetroot2 · 06/07/2016 20:52

Im another one saying ignore. Let them deal with him.

JackieAndHyde4eva · 06/07/2016 20:57

Do not respond.

CMS exists to facilitate payment of child support between parents. It is not a punishment for him or a back door attempt at bleeding him dry. It is the official service for arranging child support.

You do not owe him a face to face, telephone or email conversation about supporting his child. He should have been paying it from the day of birth without ever having been asked. That is a bare minimum standard of parenting. No-one asked you to pay for your child. No-one rung you up to discuss it. You just paid for it from the start because you are its parent and thats what parents do. The fact he didnt shows he isnt willing to support his child. Thats fine, a service exists to allow you to get that financial support for your child without begging him and having to engage with him. You dont owe him anything. He had his chance to do the support the right way, you shouldnt have needed to ask for it.

hippydippybaloney · 06/07/2016 21:01

Ask yourself why he would have a problem with the csa being involved?

You can agree for it to be paid directly to you, rather than taken off him, given to them and then to you - that is still through the csa but if he didn't pay he would be accruing official arrears, and it would be regularly checked to see if his wage has gone up. This is largely the same as doing it between yourselves except they work out the calculations and there is a net if he stops paying.

If you don't go through the csa and he stops paying, you can't really do anything. I've recently gone through the csa after years of an arrangement with my ex only to discover he's been massively underplaying. I can't get a penny of the under payments back because I had no claim then.

There is no valid or decent reason for him to have issue with the csa. He is either trying to make it easier not to pay, to pay you less or to control you.

Carry on as you are. Good luck with your new life free from this twatclacker, you have clearly made the right choice.

hippydippybaloney · 06/07/2016 21:03

And whether you 'need' the money or not is irrelevant.

FruitCider · 06/07/2016 21:11

YANBU

He sounds like a manipulative git to me. I would reply with something like. "I'm glad you agree that going through official channels is the best way forward. Now we know how much maintenance I am due if you could forward the past 3 months (£2250) at your earliest convenience (preferably in the next 2 weeks) that would be great. Kind regards"

Clutterbugsmum · 06/07/2016 22:05

If he earns 100k per year he can afford to fly to see his son. Easyjet do flights between £24 and £34 each way if he were to book 3 weeks in advance. And then what £30 a night for a travel lodge.

The fact is he doesn't want to pay or see his son unless it's on his terms I.E. you travel to him, you accept the little amount he would be prepared to pay. And then he would pull that from under your feet as soon as you did something he didn't like.

Keep it with the CMS so he has no control of the money he needs to pay you, other wise he will just use this as another form of abuse he can do to you.

msatlantis · 13/07/2016 10:00

The CMS has been trying to contact exP for the past week and it appears he has been avoiding the calls. He wants to come to an arrangement between ourselves and is laying on the guilt.

Yesterday's text states :

"I am still bewildered why money has become such an urgent issue, as despite happily discussing DS's progress together recently, you have not raised any financial matters with me either when we have spoken, or by text/what's app. And you also wrote to my mum and me, and in your note said that the gift vouchers she and my dad, and I, sent to DS were being saved for the future, as other people had bought all the things he needs for now" [exP sent £50 voucher on birth.]

"But more than that, I really do not understand why you have decided to use official agencies/3rd party organisations to communicate with me about issues as important as future support arrangements for DS. I deal with CMS cases regularly in my working life. In my experience, the CMS process is bureaucratic, distressing to BOTH parties involved, and causes mistrust and further breakdowns in what are often already strained relationships. The real day to day support and care needs of the child get lost in the process, which can be very inhumane and adversarial, and this is not what I would want for DS.

The CMS strongly recommends parents talking and working through things together to avoid this happening, and I fail to understand why you refuse to have a normal conversation with me about DS's needs. If you or I are not satisfied with the outcome of that conversation, then we can involve the CMS, IF NEEDED, at a later stage. Couples coming to a joint agreement between themselves about what is in the best interest of the child is what the CMS itself recommends, and it is certainly the best way forward for the child. I can assure you, from my learned experience of many other families, that neither you nor I will find the CMS experience a happy one, and it is a process which does very little to address DS's real needs. Please, allow us to work things out openly and honestly, between ourselves, as adults, as this is what is in DS's best interests.

You will, I know, remember that I have always been more than generous to you financially in the past - often to my own detriment - and it is in that spirit that we would be working out arrangements for DS which we can discuss and review, as most parents in our situation manage to do, as and when the need arises.

I am very concerned that you want outside organisations, lawyers and 3rd parties to be deciding future care and support arrangements for DS. It is something that engenders distrust, and a lack of openness, and is absolutely not in his best interests. It is already incredibly hard for me to have much input into his life, given that you have taken the decision to give birth and bring him up 500 miles away in Scotland. As a result of that decision, I will be a stranger rather than a father to him, which will be very difficult and distressing for a young child to understand. So, I hope you will appreciate that it is going to be impossible for me to have any meaningful input into his life at all, if we have to conduct important decisions and future communications about him in this manner.

Most families and people in our situation work these matters through, and I would urge you, for DS's sake to please consider what I have said. Let's put his interests first, and work out his care and support needs ourselves. This is about DS and his future, and I really want us to work together to do the right thing by him. I hope you want to put his best interests first too."

Now - I did not discuss maintenance with exP directly because I do not trust him and I did not want to have to 'ask' for money.
I am not keen on an arrangement where everything I need to buy for DS results in a begging conversation to exP where I have to justify every penny.
While I am not in desperate need of cash right now, I will need money when my maternity pay stops. Anything I receive before this point I can save for future expenses.
When we were together my exP was financially generous, but as soon as we split up he didn't bat an eyelid when I had to stay in hostel accommodation at 7 months pregnant because he 'needed' to use the flat (despite him having family he could stay with). Items he had bought me as gifts he removed from the flat when I was at work.
He has shown little interest in DS since I left him so this sudden engagement re his needs etc is so obviously less about DS and more about him trying to get away with paying less than the CMS has calculated.

He has two massive dogs which cost him at least £500 a month on insurance, food and day-care - no problem.

His message implies that if I go down the CMS route I won't be acting in DS's best interests.
I never want to be in a position where exP can say - you didn't want to cooperate etc. And use that to justify him being an absent father/prick etc.

Would be grateful of any suggestions of things I can say in response?

OP posts:
AlfrescoBalconyWanker · 13/07/2016 10:18

Nothing. Don't say a thing. Do not respond. Drop the rope.

milkyface · 13/07/2016 10:20

What an arsehole!

He's still trying to manipulate you.

I'm not sure I'd even dignify that with a response.

At the very most I'd probably just say that I'd made a decision to go through the official channels and I was sticking to that decision regardless of what he thought or said.

You do not have to justify your decision to him.

monkeysox · 13/07/2016 10:24

Stay strong

MoggieMaeEverso · 13/07/2016 10:28

Dear X, your opinion on the matter has been given the consideration it deserves. I've decided that it is in the best interests of DS to go through the CMS. Regards, msatlantisGrin

Lweji · 13/07/2016 10:33

Yes, don't answer. Ignore it. You don't have to justify any of your actions to him.
He is not offering to pay you now directly, nor giving a sum. If he wanted to keep things amicably, he'd ask for your bank details (if he doesn't have them) and tell you how much more he'll be contributing in addition to the minimum established by the CSM.

If you do ever answer (but not recommended), you could simply say that you'll rather keep things official in your dealings with him. Possibly, that he starts transferring the minimum amounts now (with back payments) or you continue with the CSM process.

He is an arse for never offering to pay anything, though. Gifts are quite different from day to day costs.

MadeForThis · 13/07/2016 10:37

Don't answer. If he wanted to support your LO he would have set up payments by now. He wants control over you. He wants you to ask/beg for money. Don't let him manipulate the situation.
Well done for getting away from this creep.

ratspeaker · 13/07/2016 10:38

Ignore what he is saying.
He knew the baby was on the way.
He knew the baby was born.
He has NOT paid towards his child.
Even a young baby needs clothes, equipment, nappies.
He could have offered money towards this.
He has not.
That is his problem.

You on the other hand are putting your child's interests first by applying to the csa for a formal support arrangement for what is his legal obligation.
Remember the amount is the minimum they reckon should be given as support on his salary, not what he feels like he should give when it suits him or that he can withold on a whim.
If he was that concerned he'd have set up a direct debit or standing order already.

As has been said he could fly to Edinburgh easily. Use a b and b or rent a flat for a weekend, there are several serviced flats around.
But that is for him to work out.

I remember your thread when you were pregnant. He was a shit then, he's a shit now.

I really dont think you need to respond. He is trying to goad you.

WibblyWobblyJellyHead · 13/07/2016 10:43

My experience with the CMS has been very positive. Much better than with the old CSA.

The only reason he won't want to deal with them is so he can shaft you.

hellsbellsmelons · 13/07/2016 10:44

'As I am sure you are aware by now, you are; manipulative, controlling and emotionally abusive. It is highly recommended in this situation to follow the legal route so that communication with your abuser (you) is kept to a minimum. So I shall continue down this route as it is best for me, my MH and therefore DS'

He really is a prize cock of the highest order.
Keep going, keep strong and don't give in to his manipulation.
You are doing great!

msatlantis · 13/07/2016 10:45

The only downside to me either not responding or keeping things official is that he will use that against me - i.e.

  • I did not want to cooperate
  • I did not want to build an amicable relationship
  • I was more interested in money than an honest assessment of DC's needs
  • he could not build a relationship with DS because of the above etc.

I don't want my DS to ever think I've tried to be deliberately obstructive etc.

But I cannot continue to engage with exP either. The negativity and bullshit is too much.

OP posts:
OopsThereGoMyTrousers · 13/07/2016 10:46

"I am - as ever - acting in the best interests of DS, both now and for the future. The child's interest is paramount - I am confident that using the CMA is the best way to ensure reasonable regular financial support. I do not wish discuss this matter further "

Morifarty · 13/07/2016 10:52

Don't reply. He hasn't asked you a question, and doesn't ask for a reply. Just ignore it and carry on.

Morifarty · 13/07/2016 10:53

Do you need an honest assessment with his of the needs of your DS? The CMS aren't interested in an assessment of his needs. They just care that the money is paid as it should be.

Don't confuse a conversation about his needs with the need for him to pay maintenance. They aren't the same thing.

WellWhoKnew · 13/07/2016 11:01

Well there's an awful lot of words to avoid saying what he should have, which is:

Hi msatlantis,

I see from the CMS calculator that I should be paying £750 pcm. I've set up a direct debit and the monthly payments will arrive in your account on the 1st of every month.

I hope this puts your mind at ease that I intend to be a responsible parent to our son, and would love to make arrangements with you for some contact and regular updates.

All the best,

Your delightful Ex-P.

In other words: Don't let the patronising piece of shit muck with your head.

KittiesInsane · 13/07/2016 11:16

Dear Prick,

You seem confused.
The CMS do not arrange care and support. They calculate the maintenance that you are legally obliged to pay.
Please arrange to pay it.

Yours...

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is closed and is no longer accepting replies. Click here to start a new thread.