WIBU to cancel the school summer fete?

[Narnia72]

I'm on the PFA committee (standing down at the next AGM as I can't believe how utterly soul draining it is).

This committee have done 2 big events now (as well as numerous little events). Big summer fair last year and Christmas fair last Christmas. Both well received, lots of people came, and enthusiastic feedback. We also raised lots of money for the school. However, each time we've had to go round the playground "persuading" people to help. It's such hard work. We've always ended up with a full team though and people have said they've enjoyed being involved.

This year we haven't had time to do the playground trawl, and so used parentmail and social media, giving parents text, email and fb options to reply. We have 17 people helping...

It's not enough. We have cancelled lots of stalls, and got it down to the bare minimum. If we dragoon our OHs in and spend 12 hours there setting up, running something and doing the clear up, we might just get away with it. But I don't want to.

I feel we should take the message the parents are giving us. The Head wants us to run it. There is a sponsored event and the children are showcasing various things they've learned in school clubs. She feels they will be disappointed. The rest of the committee are undecided.

2 parents have organised parties (one a whole class!) at the time of the event. Don't know whether deliberately or stupidly (don't know either of the parents involved to talk to). A whole group of parents who have helped historically are going away for the weekend (not together - lots of different events/weddings etc)

No-one seems that interested or bothered. I feel like we're flogging a dead horse, and if we cancel it we'll find out what people's true feelings are by their reactions. I don't want to spend this whole week running around trying to sort stuff.

I don't want this to turn into a PFA bashing thread. I know there are good and bad ones. Ours is a lovely friendly committee, and we've always been welcoming (anyone who's volunteered has been snapped up, we publicise our meetings and minutes, everyone is invited). We still get accused of cliques... It's such a poisoned chalice. WSWD?

yes it's always the same people doing the stalls etc as there same group of people gossiping in a group on the school play ground everyday. I think if the pta was less like this maybe people would actually want to volunteer.

This type of comment annoys me. Friends chat to other friends in the playground and it's likely that they have similar interests, so that's why they're all on the PTA.

what are they for

Ours are dual purpose. To raise money for extra curricular supplies and for the kids to have fun.

I agree - email from head saying 'This event cannot currently go ahead with the small number of volunteers we have'.

Then attach a list of hour-long time slots and jobs and give people 24 hours to respond. Otherwise yes, go ahead and cancel.

To answer a few more posts.

We don't charge entry. Everything is 50p or £1. You buy a book of 10 tokens for a fiver.

We appreciate everyone who turns up and spends money. We don't ask for loads, and it is possible to come, have a good time and not spend any money as we also run free activities (watch the show, games, football penalty shoot out and a craft activity).

Wilfself re charitable giving - the school has an affiliation with a school in Africa and donates a percentage of funds raised to that. This charity was picked by the children of the school. In addition, every class has its own local charity that it supports, again picked by the children.

I totally take your point about not engaging and supporting volunteers - none of feel engaged or supported, whether helping in school or on the PFA. It's a really difficult thing to get right, and the school has a lack of resources. The head feels it's more important to teach the children correctly than put a good volunteer programme in place, and I understand this POV totally. I think many schools are similar.

In terms of number of events, there are

1. 2 major events per year - Christmas and Summer. Most people come and spend about a tenner per child for each event, some more and some less.

2. 1 small event for the benefit of the kids each term (disco, film).

3. a sponsored event. This year it's been amalgamated with the summer fair.

Does that seem like too much? They are all, obviously, optional.

The school is in a middle class area and doesn't attract much pupil premium. It ends up losing out on grants and things all the time because other demographics are prioritised, which is absolutely fair enough, but the parents feel aggrieved at raising money to provide extras. The PFA have funded new computers (last ones were 10 years old), paid for music lessons for the school that wouldn't otherwise happen, refurbished the library (bought new shelves and books) and paid for specialists to come in and do activity days with the school. They are not essential (apart from the computers and the books), but really enhance the school experience. Plus, we also run a hardship fund (which the school administers, the PFA have no involvement other than raising the money).

Whatever your political beliefs, the hard fact is that school budgets are being slashed and our head sees us getting to the stage where money raised will have to be used to buy essentials for teaching.

The comment about not bothering to change the format - we have looked at different ideas and have done some things differently, but kept the things that are enjoyed and raise money. In an ideal world, with a decent amount of help, I'd do a lot differently, but you can only work with what you have.

And fwiw, all the people on the committee work - either full or part time. No SAHMs.

Yep, do the email. Then cancel if nobody volunteers.

Next time get the year sixes to run stalls. Ours do, with a little supervision.

I don't help because the fairs are straight after school. I'd have to take a half day holiday and then pay someone else to look after DC in the school holidays instead. I have made sixty million cupcakes and donated a gazillion raffle prizes instead.

Yes it's terrible that other mums have not volunteered leaving dads in danger of having to do so

I would cancel. Its not going to be fun for anyone without enough support.

Our school is a nightmare getting help too. Unfortunately the staff seem to forget the meaning of the letter T in the PTFA . We never get staff helping and our PTFA are down to just 3 members.

The meetings are the wrong time of day for anyone to turn up to (3.30pm) because the Head wants to have her say on events/fundraising and she wont stay any later or return to school for a late meeting. Most parents want meetings at 7pm in the pub because its after they've fed the children and put them to bed but we cant get the Chair or Head to agree to this.

Most parents want to see something different that is worth them paying for, not the usual summer fair selling 2nd hand toys and raffling off booze left over from 5 Christmases ago....which is actually what we still do

Theres another school locally and the whole town turns out for their events. They are legendary and advertised everywhere. On the local radio, in the newspaper in every shop stuck on cars etc

They had the circus one year with circus school for the children to take part in. Pay to go in and watch plus pay to attend the circus school which was run in a separate area after the circus display itself and the school get to keep the money from the entrance fee.

Knights battling on the field with knight school/archery/sword fighting. School gets to charge entry to the premises and a cut from Knight school.

Movie night with preordered baked potatoes and hot chocolate. The children made their own cardboard box cars to sit in so it was like a drive through movie and they held a competition for the best 'cardboard car'.

The way to get volunteers is to offer their children free activities as a reward. Knight school was £6.00 per child and 3 of my children took part. I would happily have helped out if it meant I didn't have to pay. It's thinking outside the box.

Unfortunately my school is a bit too small to run these events on their own so we just carry on with the usual.

I hate the assumption that the PTA is some kind of school gate club. I never went to the school gate because DC went on the school bus from being 5 years old while I went to work.
The PTA consisted of those who were willing. That's all. No cosy chats with the head, no back door governors.
Our fete did raise money but mostly it was done because the children loved it. The whole village and neighbouring villages used to turn up. This was a very small school, the entire school cohort was 60 children.
We had fun races, a brass band, welly throwing, stocks, coconut shy etc. Twas like an episode of Midsomer Murders.

DS school has 300 children so 600 parents plus grandparents and aunts uncles etc - we'd be lucky to get 10 volunteers.

People do think it's beneath them.

Oh and the complaints - no ducks this year? They ran out of hot dogs..... blah

Sorry I've done my stint with no thanks, parents are ungrateful and huffy.

We have a new chair this year and she's done one disco all year. Funds will be low!!

Oh and I've helped at the infant and junior disco and still had to pay the kids entry fee.

As I'm there for both they need extra cash. Cost me a small fortune.

We usually do a disco/quiz night per term, plus a Xmas and summer fair, Macmillan coffee morning and 2 sponsored events per year (1 for a charity chosen by the school, the other for the school. The charity one usually raises 3 times more than the school one, so we didn't do the school one this year).

We did a survey of parents to ask what sort of events they wanted and what time we should hold meetings. When an evening meeting was requested by several respondents, we arranged one. Not one additional person turned up. . The suggested events were all far more complicated/expensive to put on. I might be more inclined to try them if I trusted people to help/come to them.

The school is small and has a funny demographic - low pupil premium numbers and lots of SAHP but on the edge of a huge ex local authority estate with 2 other massive schools. Even getting raffle prizes is a pain in the arse.

Man the stalls that make the most money. Give year 5 and 6 responsibility for a stall each , and then invite commercial operators - who pay £20 for the privilege of coming ( eg craft folk selling their wares etc). You still get some cash, and fete is better as has more interest for people, but you need fewer volunteers.

Wilf's post is spot on to me.

There may be a robust and coherent ethical, practical, financial and political vision in PTAs but they never bloody tell you what it is. You can't find out anything at all if you are at work either, because nothing is ever distributed in writing or in any other form but turning up at physical meetings held in the daytime.

Vague well meaningless isn't enough for me to find time to jump aboard this sort of vague hand waving ship. It's bloody hard for me to find time to take basic care of myself and my family and I need to really understand the value of every single thing I'm doing.

OP - I would cancel. If people think it's a loss, then let them come forward and do something about it next time. If they don't - well they don't. And it doesn't make them worse people.

FWIW here is one thing that would make me think twice about not being arsed: if I felt my child was genuinely involved in the event. I would try my hardest to support my children's development in every way, including volunteering and having a sense of community and a sense that the things that they benefit from don't just appear. I'd support that in the same way that I support them learning to read (but don't support them by doing their project homework for them, as some parents do). As adults most of us try our best to give back to the commonweal in whatever ways we can: firstly by supporting our families, after that by paying taxes, volunteering, our input into local communities etc. It's more than just the school; I don't have time to hang around the school after everything else - UNLESS - the school is the facilitator for my child learning to take their part in all this.

I disagree with the kids helping. They are the target market for the stalls. Having 2 years toed up on stalls means less money for the school.

Yes - but you only have two or three of them on the stall at any one time. And in our experience, kids are given an amount of money to spend, and they are determined to spend it all. Even if, by the end of the fete, they are buying utter rubbish !!

I don't find that at all Sally -our year sixes ran each stall in twos and threes -all popped off frequently to look at other stalls, buy drinks and food and play the tombola etc. They were very sensible about it and no stall was left unattended but they all got to walk about and enjoy the fete. As all the year six stalls were under one marquee they were all selling to each other and made loads of money (and ate about six tonnes of sweets and ice cream!). Parents were much more likely to spend money at the kids stalls for the awww factor. The kids stalls made significantly more than the adult run tombola and competitions.

The PTA consisted of those who were willing. That's all. No cosy chats with the head, no back door governors.

Absolutely this with bells on. We always say when our meetings are and advertise them on facebook and put a notice by the school door and it's always the same people. Last meeting a new mum turned up and we almost smothered the poor woman we were so happy to see someone new, she had about 5 people falling over themselves to make her a cup of tea and take her coat.

Early evening ???
Im afraid it would cut into peoples days out or plans.

I wouldnt fancy attending a school event in the early evening on a Saturday.
It means you cant go out for the day as you would have to rush back or it would cut into your evening plans.

Wow this is all speaking to me... Especially since the head of my kids' school has just asked if I'd get on the ptfa (and possibly chair the damn thing). I work full time and as of September I'll be commuting to London (a couple of times a week) but still.

Our summer fete is held on a Friday afternoon and this year I couldn't attend as I was in London for a work thing. I didn't bring in cake donations as I thought (wrongly it appears) that it had to be home baked. Dh brought the kids and get fleeced!!!

Friends of mine who Have turned up to help out for the discos, Christmas fair and summer fair have commented that they've been ignored by the chair in terms of jobs. They complain that there's no one to help out but when people do, they end up standing around doing 'nothing' and the chair is running around looking busy. Chair doesn't seem to want to delegate stuff. If anything I'm pretty good at delegation!!

Good luck. In your case I'd send a last email saying exactly why it can't run and see if the school can support it with teachers or the older years taking charge of some of the activities.

bitemyarsenic you're affair the school fate would cot into people's plans?

Isn't that kinda the idea?? The fate is the 'thing' you go to that day. Attitudes like yours are exactly the issue the OP is facing.

Just be honest and say you don't like going to or helping at school fates, don't try and make t out like they are at inconvenient times for you.

I think it's too late to cancel. Some people might not find out and turn up anyway, presumably some have put efforts in to preparation.

I think kick up a fuss after and reassess for next year in plenty of time if people don't support.

It really is a thankless task!

Our PTA has evening meetings the pub (we vary the day of the week)
There is a Facebook group and this is advertised on the school playground plus newsletters.
There is a large group email that goes round with minutes/agenda.
The school playground has a noticeboard with info about events and contacts.
People on the committee know each other and are friendly but not best mates.
New parents are given a leaflet with info about what we do and the chair goes to the new parents meeting.

We get the same half dozen people showing up to each meeting...

I think you may find these days that staff are too overworked to have the energy to help in many cases. They are probably marking at home.

"Friends of mine who Have turned up to help out for the discos, Christmas fair and summer fair have commented that they've been ignored by the chair in terms of jobs. They complain that there's no one to help out but when people do, they end up standing around doing 'nothing' and the chair is running around looking busy."

I've been in their shoes. As a newish parent, when I saw the "we're desperate for help" message, I changed my plans, said I'd be there, and turned up, all bright and bushy tailed. To be largely ignored, no direction to do anything, rebuffed at every 'can I help?'. Then when I spotted something that needed doing, asked if I should do it, got the go ahead and did it; it was almost immediately redone by someon else.

I never volunteered for them again.

We had our school fete yesterday. I took the kids along and spent some cash (and gossipped with smallests teacher who was supervising year 5's on a couple of stalls)

I don't get involved in the pfa tbh. I would rather give an annual donation and avoid the summer and Christmas fetes.

I do volunteer with scouts and junior parkrun so it isn't that I don't volunteer or that I'm lazy I just don't have the interest to get involved. Plus a few friends have worked hard on the committee then had major issues with the headteacher overriding spending decisions. I have 3 years left at the school I can't be doing with the hassle.

Narnia I would send one last email then cancel. Good luck x