WIBU to cancel the school summer fete?

[Narnia72]

I'm on the PFA committee (standing down at the next AGM as I can't believe how utterly soul draining it is).

This committee have done 2 big events now (as well as numerous little events). Big summer fair last year and Christmas fair last Christmas. Both well received, lots of people came, and enthusiastic feedback. We also raised lots of money for the school. However, each time we've had to go round the playground "persuading" people to help. It's such hard work. We've always ended up with a full team though and people have said they've enjoyed being involved.

This year we haven't had time to do the playground trawl, and so used parentmail and social media, giving parents text, email and fb options to reply. We have 17 people helping...

It's not enough. We have cancelled lots of stalls, and got it down to the bare minimum. If we dragoon our OHs in and spend 12 hours there setting up, running something and doing the clear up, we might just get away with it. But I don't want to.

I feel we should take the message the parents are giving us. The Head wants us to run it. There is a sponsored event and the children are showcasing various things they've learned in school clubs. She feels they will be disappointed. The rest of the committee are undecided.

2 parents have organised parties (one a whole class!) at the time of the event. Don't know whether deliberately or stupidly (don't know either of the parents involved to talk to). A whole group of parents who have helped historically are going away for the weekend (not together - lots of different events/weddings etc)

No-one seems that interested or bothered. I feel like we're flogging a dead horse, and if we cancel it we'll find out what people's true feelings are by their reactions. I don't want to spend this whole week running around trying to sort stuff.

I don't want this to turn into a PFA bashing thread. I know there are good and bad ones. Ours is a lovely friendly committee, and we've always been welcoming (anyone who's volunteered has been snapped up, we publicise our meetings and minutes, everyone is invited). We still get accused of cliques... It's such a poisoned chalice. WSWD?

I volunteered once and got put on the bbq stall. I had my dd2 with me who was 2 at the time. I said I really couldn't do it: I really couldn't safely be in charge of a 2 yo, a 5 yo and a bbq simultaneously.

They found me a different stall but gave me evils all afternoon.

I'd send another polite email, preferably endorsed by the Head and committee, saying that if you don't get x number more volunteers by x time, unfortunately the event will not be viable.

the thing is though although it is very nice of the committee and the volunteers to put their precious time aside to make this happen, don't forget that every parent who goes and gives their dcs spending money (perhaps very hard earned) is also contributing. They might not feel that they are doing nothing (even if you do) because they put aside 3 hours on a sunny saturday where they might be either genuinely relaxing in the garden, or getting around to doing something about that fence / those weeds / the ironing/ whatever is boring a hole in their consciences.

Do the final volunteer before x date or we'll have to cancel due to lack of support. Then it won't be a total shock if it is cancelled.

I've just resigned from our PTA, it really is soul draining. Great way of putting it. You start off, all fired up and enthusiastic then with each hour the same people end up clearing up / putting up / purchasing items etc it slowly drains away.

The final straw for me was the head wanting to spend £4000 to subsidise a class trip that in my mind could have been done much closer to home therefore being cheaper.

We've were wanting new people to come forwards and volunteer to be on the committee and have done various things coffee's before / after school at weekend events etc and got nowhere. Offered alcohol as enticement, still no one came forward. So 6 of the current committee of 9 have resigned as our children have left the school.
Rant over- sorry you touched a nerve!

Our school pta is very clicky which I think puts a lot of people of, yes it's always the same people doing the stalls etc as there same group of people gossiping in a group on the school play ground everyday. I think if the pta was less like this maybe people would actually want to volunteer.

Purple I genuinely do not have time. I have a very demanding, stressful job and I'm also very involved with the committee of the hobby I do. Which I started doing years and years before I even had dc.

I'm quite offended by your post tbh. Those lazy parents who won't help end up spending money at the events they are too lazy to help at. We can stop doing that, you know.

I think many parents have an extremely well-developed sense of what their school should do for them and hardly any notion of what they should do for their school.

That said, I agree with a pp who suggested publishing specific duties and their durations. I think that would make people more likely to volunteer.

I'm co-chair of our pta and would cancel. We have the same problem with getting volunteers and it is a thankless task. Problem is that everyone thinks someone else will step up and help.

We always make it clear that events will not go ahead without enough parent helpers. For events in the part like children's discos which can get quite wild, we need more helpers and in the past have had to limit numbers because we haven't had enough adult helpers. Cancelling shows the parents that you're not making empty threats and it's the kids who will end up losing as less money will be raised.

One thing which helps us is that we always do a very quick 5 minute talk at the welcome meetings at the end of summer term for the parents of the new children about to start, telling them what the PTA is, what we do, what events we run and most importantly telling them about all the cool stuff the PTA funds which wouldn't be happening otherwise. SOmeone from the PTA always hangs around afterwards to answer any parent questions.

At our Summer fete year 6 were roped in to run stalls in groups of 3. They loved it, their stalls were run inside one big marquee so they could be supervised by a couple of adults. Was a huge success as parents all loved buying from their children and it freed up other volunteers for the trickier stalls/bbq/booze stand. I think an email around to all parents with an explanation and timescale for volunteeeing or you will cancel would be good. If you can't rouse anyone, just cancel. Are you overdoing the events? Being expected to attend endless fetes, performances and fundraising days is bloody annoying and to be honest, by the time I've done a weeks work, sorted out horses, cleaned the house etc etc the last thing I feel like doing is spending my Saturdays volunteering to run a stall. I will do one in a while, but I just can't do one a month/couple of months.

Thanks all for your input and sorry for disappearing! Just to answer some questions.

We do a Christmas fair and a summer fair each year. The other events are discos and other events for the kids. Not big fundraisers. It's a format we inherited and seems to have worked in the past.

We've sent out a very specific email about what help we need - ie 5 strong people too put up gazebos between 1-3pm. This has netted us the most volunteers.

It's this Saturday, so too late to radically alter the format. Early evening so as not to eat into the whole day for most people. Previously have done Friday after school which worked well for parents but a nightmare for school and impossible to get volunteers to set up.

The head is trying to rally staff and there are a few already committed to helping. They're included in the numbers.

Showcasing the kids encourages the parents to come we've found, which is one of the reasons we do it.

Apologies for the stupid comments re the party. It's just caused headaches for the parents involved as some have a child invited to the party who is also supposed to be performing and wants to do both, some parents are hacked off that they've essentially been asked to choose between supporting the school and going to a fun party, and the head isn't happy that the majority of a class who might otherwise help (children who are old enough to run stalls) can't be there. I'm surprised people wouldn't factor it in as it does mean you've got competition for your party, in the same way you presumably wouldn't book one at the same time another party with the same invitees was being held, as it just means people have to choose and might not choose your child.

Err, what else? I'm going to suggest the email ultimatum from the head I think. We have already cut stalls to the bone but don't want to widely publicise this as then people might think it's going to be rubbish and not worth bothering with. We've communicated what we're raising money for but again that's proved divisive as not everyone think it's a good idea... (not the Pfa choice). We asked classes to run their own stalls last time and it worked but again we had to go and physically ask people. Just CBA this time!

Thanks all, you've given me lots to think about, especially those who aren't keen on Pfa events as I think we have a lot of them in school. We have an emergency meeting tomorrow morning to look at what we can manage and will make a decision then.

Oh and to add, we ended up spending loads at the last fete -£5 entry fee (?!), then food, bouncy castle, tombola, raffle (which we contributed two prizes toward), bucket collection, ride. Also made two cakes, two costumes for the play, tickets for play (£15), trip out for two kids (£60), non uniform day x 2 (£8) in the past few months alone. I just can't afford too many events!

Our fete was yesterday - so today I'm a firm YANBU.

The same core half dozen did 90% of the work (three of those six did 75%) then a few reliable faithful who work basically ft in the week did long stints volunteering. One parent who is a pub landlady "donated" her staff to run the bar for the afternoon which was a massive help.

I think there's a pretty strong encouragement for the staff to turn up to help, so the site manager, most class teachers, several TAs and the SLT were all there. Absolutely couldn't do it without them; they understand the need for the money!

As we were clearing up, our chair was heard muttering "not next year". It takes a lot of organising and you have to have a thick skin to deal with all the "no"s.

If you've not paid deposits on eg bouncy castles, fuck it, cancel. Sometimes it takes an actual cancellation to stir people up.

yes it's always the same people doing the stalls etc as there same group of people gossiping in a group on the school play ground everyday. I think if the pta was less like this maybe people would actually want to volunteer.

I find this very frustrating. When you're volunteering, in general you're working on your own or with one other person. If you volunteer with a friend then you can stand chatting with them all afternoon, taking the odd 50p for Hook A Duck.

It seems rather precious to need to be asked personally. But then I guess I come from a background of always volunteering for things, so it wouldn't occur to me to wait to be asked.

Our chief volunteers all also have pt paid jobs and other volunteer roles (fostering, scouting, toddler groups, church groups, sports clubs, etc) so it really feels like "need something doing? Ask a busy person".

Don't worry about changing your inherited format OP. Maybe it's from days gone by when fewer women worked so they had more time for this kind of thing?

I think most parents prefer fewer events.

Sorry, but I'm afraid I'd cancel. From bitter experience, all another email is likely to get you is a few who'll sign up because they want the fair to go ahead ... and then fail to turn up on the day because their hearts just weren't in it

Oh I remember the PTA fete. My DC went to a tiny village school and the big event of the year was a ridiculously ambitious fete that took a year to plan.
Every year it was the same group who put in 12 hours on the day and many, many more in the lead up. Most of us worked as well as volunteering .
It was a fabulous day. always, and we all said "never again" every year.
A couple of years after my DC left it was abandoned for good.

For next year - you need to make filling the stalls with helpers someone else's job!

At our school, each class gets assigned a stall (either on their own or with another class if it's a stall that requires a lot of effort), the class rep gets sent the details along with a form with the 3 hours of the fair split into 30 minute chunks, 2 names per time slot, plus 2 for set up and clean up.

Each class is expected to sort it between themselves and only get back to the PTA if they can't fill slots. This rarely happens as usually it can be fudged with persuading someone to do a second slot etc.

Class reps are the ones doing the badgering at the school gate, not PTA members, who tend to just step into the slots where someone suddenly can't make it.

Right now I'd send round one last push of asking for help then cancel. Next year, you need to spread the responsibility for finding helpers.

Yes at our PTA events, the regular helpers were the ones with jobs, many full time (including me). I think they felt that as they were not at the school on pick up\ drop off, it was a way for them to get involved. We had a massive argument ( as in loud complaining in the layground, the silent treatment, lengthy emails CCD to God knows how many parents etc) one year because we didn't have as much money as the previous year so couldn't give as much money to the year 6 parties. Money was always given on the basis it would only be given dependent on funds. About one of the complaining parents had helped in the 6 years her child had been at the school. After that, the whole PTA committee resigned and gave the poisoned chalice to other parents. I then left the school so I don't know how they are doing!

1. What are they for? in our school to raise money for equipment for mostly relatively well provided for kids. Nobody asks me if I mind, politically, subsidising things that are supposed to be publicly funded. If they asked if maybe one year we might raise money for a school in a poorer area, I could get right behind that. Or an annual charity that isn't about just making our own kids better resourced.

1. No taxation without representation. The PTA is not an open Association. It is a fundraising body in most schools where the governors and head hold parents at arms' length from actual decision making. This is virtually unquestioned in the two schools I have experience of and PTA are supposed to just shut up about material changes to things that actually affect educational decisions. I'm not interested in being a cash cow but am interested in being a real partner, instead of parent partnership just being a convenient phrase to trot out. I think more people would get involved if it fed into governance.

1. I do loads of independent charity work in my region. Does the PTA ever support that? No. But I work hard to train, reward, support, validate, engage and develop my volunteers. If it is soul draining, that's because the organisation hasn't got a good enough vision of what or why it is doing the work and how to sustain motivation. Why don't you topslice 10% of the funds raised for volunteer development, incentives and training explaining clearly to the committee and parents that you need to do this because of lack of volunteers? And have a strategy for building continuity and expertise?

I don't expect the PTA officers to do more with me in my charity since what they do is good work. But I don't moan at them for not getting involved in my very good cause and nor do I expect to be moralised at about my 'laziness' - with my full time job, my three kids, all at different schools with different sporting commitments and my husband's and my own community/volunteering commitments: if you want to run a good voluntary organisation, go ask the successful ones how they do it!

If it is an important social event for some people, adults or kids, so be it. Then let the people who want to do it, do it without presuming it is an essential. If it's a well resourced school, ask the parents who are too busy for a donation in return for no school playground glares. I will happily opt out of being asked in return for a direct donation.

But let's not be uncritical about it. It's charitable giving, and that's a matter of politics.

Wow. We don't charge entry to our fetes/fun days. It's £2 per child for the disco, and £1.50 for a glitter tattoo. Drinks are 50p, hot dogs/BBQ items £1, cakes 50p per cupcake/slice. We have lots of free activities and then games like hook a duck etc for 20-50p - with most winning prizes worth 40p or so.

I don't think we take the piss.

Our tiny village school fetes were always on a Friday afternoon, when I work. I was always asked to volunteer, and got the 'hmm' head tilt when I said, sorry I'm at work.
I started off being embarrassed about that and took a day off work to volunteer. Never a bloody gain. I felt like a spare part - the committee were too busy swanning around to actually tell me what stall they wanted me on. I ended up litter picking and washing up (which I was happy to do - I was just wandering around doing it though because the A mums ignored me)

In latter years, I paid not to go - bunged them some money if they promised not to ask me to help again.

disclaimer - this was a very middle class bitchy village, I am pretty damn antisocial and therefore this is all unrepresentative of PTAs round the country

DS is in a small village school so having 17 people volunteering to help would be amazing! However, a number of teachers usually get drafted in to help as well. Our summer fair is always on a school day, usually a Friday. And starts once the school day is over.

All the Y6 pupils have to run a stall either in groups or individually. They have to decide what the stall is going to be, set it up and run it. Each stall is given a small amount of money to help with setup costs and then the money raised goes to the PTA. Most stalls usually involve getting wet

The other children love these stalls. Then adults run the more usual stalls eg cakes, raffle. There is also a BBQ.

Going forward I would aim for a simpler fair and get children more involved if possible. If parents want more, they can organise it the following year

We cancelled ours this year due to lack of support. We got complained at because we cancelled by the same people who wouldn't/couldn't help out! Talk about annoying!

I volunteered for a few years, but felt it was time some of the newer parents got involved. I continued to make cakes for the cake stall and sent in crap for the second hand stall.

It's pretty much the same as our church events - the same people volunteering year after year.

What are they for? in our school to raise money for equipment for mostly relatively well provided for kids

But that's the whole point of a PTA - to raise funds for the school. They are not there to raise funds for someone else's school. Also I have to disagree that PTA events raise money for things which should be publically funded - we make it very clear that PTA money is for the "extras" like new playground equipment, external workshops from authors or historical societies, and not things like desks, books and pencils.

Also it might be different in England but we don't have governers in Scotland and the fundraising is simple - we raise the funds, school has a "wish list" and we decide what we're going to pay for. Or a parent has an idea for something they'd really like (such as a bike rack) and we pay for that. The PTA remit is purely fundraising - we do not get involved in any educational decisions, staffing decisions or maintenance issues. We have a separate Parent Council which does that (and they don't do any fundraising).