to think that Nicola Sturgeon is a liar

[mamamea]

She has said 'Holyrood could veto Brexit'

www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36633244

However, the Scotland Act 1998, from which all her powers are derived, makes it clear that foreign affairs, including, explicitly, relations with the EU, is not something over which the Scottish Parliament has any authority.

She says ' would there have to be a legislative consent motion' (i.e. a motion accepting UK legislation in a devolved area to be valid in Scotland). The answer is no, as foreign relations are not devolved.

She obviously knows this, why is she lying?

A politician telling lies. Never!!!!!

Isn't it "hear, hear"? Scotland obviously has a difference of opinion regarding spelling too!

Boris did not expect to win. Cameron obviously has no stomach for any negotiations which he did not ever want to do. Any loser should fall on their sword. Salmond did and now Cameron has. Surely that is the honourable thing to do? Not to worry though, the Brexiteers will soon have another Old Etonian in charge.

NS clearly sees an opportunity but the uncertainty will hit Scotland and there is the big problem of tumbling oil revenues. She must consider the position very carefully and not underestimate referendum fatigue. What a mess!

I said this on another thread:

Sturgeon may well have just offered to play pantomime villain to Westminster in a long game to save UK politics. She calls this, and those lacking the political zeal to leave the EU have their perfect excuse not to. They can play this as not leaving the EU until they have a plan Scotland is happy with (they may never be happy), or a way Sturgeon can sell something like EEA to Scotland. Either way no Brexit without a definite plan. She won't care the English will hate her, and Westminster will secretly thank her and in return I'm sure she'll get something that will be seen as massively beneficial to the Scottish, more power or self control probably.

What I didn't add was that also hiding behind pantomime villain Sturgeon could remove the poisoned chalice element of the Tory leadership right now.

I normally have to leave the room if Ms Sturgeon is on the telly or radio but I have to agree with PanEuropean here. She IS the only elected official doing their bloody job. Everyone else has fucked off to lick their wounds or to try to come up with a cunning plan. And that's without considering the ones who never showed their faces at all - Osborne, May etc. Shower of shite, the lot of them.
So good for her for exploring all the alternatives (and I'm not sure there are any). Good for her.

Quite. Most disappointed in Tom Watson, in a field in Glasonbury - fearful of returning to have to make a decision? Holding a beer can in a field this weekend is not a good image.

Sturgeon has shown herself to be a terrific leader with a clear message. I'd love for her to be on the team that negotiates the exit but she can't if she's working on indyref2.

"She won't care the English will hate her"

48%, plus the ones who now regret voting Leave, will bloody love her

bake I must confess, I did very nearly write that but then it didn't fit fully with my pantomime villain theme

The 'English' won't hate her - the small minority of incredibly wealthy people will, plus a few ukippers - that's it

Everyone else, whether in the 'Remain' camp or not will respect her making her decision on behalf of her electorate

My dh is as far from the SNP as it's possible to be, he still thinks she's a respected politician striving to do the right thing

She'll never get Westminster to agree to another indie referendum if she tries to hold them to ransom and as she wants independence over and above anything then I think she'll see just how stupid she's being.

The top EU bods have probably told her that they won't let Scotland stay when England and Wales leave but they will have to apply as a new member so she is having a bit of a strop. No way will Scotland vote to leave the UK if they have to take the euro as their currency. Economic suicide!

So if Nic manages to block Brexit then English parliament can block scotindi?

Sturgeon wants independence but she's smart. She knows there's not enough will I'm Scotland for that yet. What she can do is bring more self governing powers to Scotland in the meantime. And these things are all about spin.

She could do it.

The referendum result isn't legally binding. Parliament has to draw up, and pass, legislation to get us out. If MP's don't vote for it, we don't go.

It's explained in here

Sturgeon may well have just offered to play pantomime villain to Westminster in a long game to save UK politics. She calls this, and those lacking the political zeal to leave the EU have their perfect excuse not to. They can play this as not leaving the EU until they have a plan Scotland is happy with (they may never be happy), or a way Sturgeon can sell something like EEA to Scotland. Either way no Brexit without a definite plan. She won't care the English will hate her, and Westminster will secretly thank her and in return I'm sure she'll get something that will be seen as massively beneficial to the Scottish, more power or self control probably.

Interesting. I can see how that would appeal to the current disarrayed Govt - a bit like a get out of jail free card. I wonder if the politicians could spin that on the basis of 'advisory vs legislative consent' and the latter overrides the former.

Of course, the easiest way to stop Brexit would be for the HoC to refuse to accept the referendum results. Bearing in mind we (democratically) voted them into power to act on our behalf, then it is their duty to do what they see as best for the UK and it electorate. If the majority honestly believe it is in our interests to remain then they should act on that belief.

I can't take Nicola Sturgeon seriously. She looks like Jimmy Crankie.

Whatever you think of Nicola Sturgeon, she's very intelligent and a smart political operator. She's also the only politician in Britain right now who is showing some leadership and doing the job she was elected to do - which is looking after the interests of Scotland.

Meanwhile, the silence from Westminster is deafening. Where's the leadership there?

There is not necessarily a requirement for legislation to trigger Article 50 - and I think any judge looking at the case would accept that the referendum gave the prime minister the power to do so without parliamentary authority.
Any MP who feels they cannot support an exit should resign as they are not representing the population.

Well they are representing 'their constituency' i.e. the people who voted them in. It's a basis of the system of rep democracy we have. So any MP who represents a constitutional area can rightfully say they are representing their constituents by not supporting an exit.

"The 'English' won't hate her hmm - the small minority of incredibly wealthy people will, plus a few ukippers - that's it
"

What on earth are you talking about? The incredibly wealthy voted for Remain.

It was the poor who voted to Leave.

mamamea I'm neither English nor incredibly wealthy. I voted for remain and I can't stand the sight of Sturgeon.

How can you say the poor voted to leave given the support for remain in Dundee and Glasgow and the fact Dumfries and Galloway only just did so.

It's much more complicated demographically than that

There are plenty of incredibly wealthy who voted and campaigned to Leave (obviously!)

And also some disaffected poorer people who protest voted to leave

It is NOT the case that the wealthy are Remain and the poor are Leave - that's completely simplistic

I don't particularly like her but if David Cameron's balls were half as big as hers , we may not be in this situation in the first place.

The last two labour PMs were Scottish and look how that turned out... Also if you look at education, health service, etc. I wouldn't say the SNP are doing a particularly good job of running the county. Much easier to distract the electorate with another referendum.

The caveats to 'once in a lifetime' were thought of after the event when decision went the wrong way. I suppose she will want a biased question again too.

"It's much more complicated demographically than that hmm

There are plenty of incredibly wealthy who voted and campaigned to Leave (obviously!)

And also some disaffected poorer people who protest voted to leave

It is NOT the case that the wealthy are Remain and the poor are Leave - that's completely simplistic"

Well yes and no. Nothing is EVER 100%. But the fact is the poorer you were the more likely you were to vote Leave. And the richer you were the more likely you were to Remain.

Other demographics were at play, of course. But that was a key trend.

I'm no fan of NS but she seems to be the only political figure trying to come up solutions this awful mess. The silence from Westminster is deafening.