AIBU in not wanting anything to do with my SIL?

[Momoftwoscallywags]

I will state for the record I am not a fan of my SIL, but I have always wanted her to have a relationship with my children.....until recently!

She has always been a very "jealous" person which was amusing when we were in our 20's but not when you reach your late 40's. This jealously makes her suspicious of everything that is said to her, she takes everything personally and has absolutely no sense of humour. This makes for some interesting time's between her and my DH, who as her brother, seems to deliberately "bait" her with his sarcastic sense of humour. I think a lot of the time it's because she doesn't understand his humour so this makes her feel stupid so she retaliates by having yet another strop.

We had another strop today but this time she went too far and began shouting at my 6 year old son and calling him a liar , so my husband told her to stop and basically didn't stop her leaving escorted her out of our home.

She had her strop in front of my DH, my DS6, DS4, her Mom, her own DS9 and DS12, while I was upstairs getting changed, as I had just come home from work. I ended up shouting down the stairs, while hopping around trying to take my trousers off, for them to stop it as I did not want them arguing in front of the children, only to hear the door slam and she was gone!

When I came downstairs to find out what had happened my DH was furious, apparently his DN12 had thrown my DS6 shoes into the bushes outside and DH, jokingly, had took him to task. Everyone was giggling because he was being funny when , apparently, my SIL just blew up accusing my DS6 (much to his shock) of lying and saying my DS6 was always saying nasty things about DN12! Flabbergasted my DH gave as good as he got and that's why she left, taking her kids with her.

She has done this before and the last time it happened she didn't speak to DH (or us) for 6 months it was bliss.

DH has just said "fuck her" but that doesn't make for good future relations but I am inclined to agree with him as I am not sure I want my kids to have to deal with her if she is always like this. I can't remember a time when spending time with their Aunt hasn't ended with her having a strop.

So AIBU in not wanting anything to do with my SIL?

I would normally agree with you DeathStare but on this occasion, he said he was genuinely being funny with the four kids and he only got sarcastic after she flew of the handle.

But of course he did. People with goady/nasty senses of humour always think they are being genuinely funny. The person who makes the rape joke, the sexist joke, the racist joke, the person who uses jokes to bully others. Their response is always that they were being genuinely funny and the other person has no sense of humour and completely over-reacted

Have you ever sat down with your SIL and tried asking how she feels when your DH "jokes" with her? I mean genuinely with kindness and empathy, not just defending him.

To be honest your DH doesn't sound like a very nice man towards his sister. He knows these things upset her and yet he does them anyway. Even if he thinks she is being over-sensitive, it would be nice if her feelings were more important to him than him being the clown who is centre of attention (at her and her children's expense)

And just to add - you seem to have set different standards for your children and her children. You see nothing wrong with your DH using nasty "jokes" towards her child (ones that clearly made her upset), yet refuse to believe that your child can have done some of the things (eg. turning the hose on) which your SIL believes them to have done and are perfectly plausible.

Your DH sounds like a bit of a bully towards SIL and her DC, and you come across as his defender/enabler.

Sounds like she has reached the end of her tether and blown up over something seemingly small, but really the result of years of upset.

Do your ILs never tell your dh to pack it in?
Sil might well be hard work but your h behaves like a dick, deliberately needling her and repeatedly 'crossing the line'. I'd say that all this is at least 50% his fault.

I have a BIL like your DH. He loves to wind people up with sarcasm, digs and put downs and genuinely thinks he is funny. He thinks that is his sense of humour and that he's a laugh a minute. From the outside he's a nasty, manipulative, snidy bully who enjoys watching people become uncomfortable and then unable to challenge him because it's 'all a joke and why are they being so sensitive??'

His wife thinks he's a great guy who is really funny. Everyone else thinks he's a knob.

DH and I have watched this for years and not said anything. Every social situation BIL has to be the big 'I am' and isn't happy unless he's putting someone else down to make himself feel good.

My DH finally snapped recently and told him to fuck off. He wants nothing more to do with him. BIL is now acting all wounded and entitled.

Knowing we don't have to see him or put up with his humour is bliss.

It's all a matter of perception.

One of DH's sisters takes umbridge and feels slighted over the most peculiar things, you just can;t imagine how her brain works.
eg, she was supposed to be coming around for lunch, and arrived just as I was cleaning up copious amounts of vomit, the Dt's had just both started to throw up etc. I asked her if she minded if I sent her home with her DC's as I had a lot of cleaning/clearing up to do, I did not know what had caused the sickness and "did not want her DC's"picking anything up" she stormed off in a rage and told the rest of the family , that I had invited her for lunch then wouldn't let her in because I was worried her DC's would pick up and play with things in my house.

She didn't speak to me for years over that one, my other SIl who lives near her often jumps into shops etc if she feels she hasn't got the energy to think about everything she says before saying it to her, it is very wearing to have someone in the family like this, and also not being able to be spontaneous with your speech.

OP I would just leave her be for a while, will your PILs talk to her ?
It won't be the last time that this happens!

DH said that when he came back in he waggled his eyebrows and said to DN9, in a "going on a bear hunt" voice "Did you throw the shoes into the bushes?", he then did it to DS4. They both giggled and said no. He then waggled his other eyebrow and said the same thing to DN12, who just smirked.

I'm sorry but this sounds bullying and mean of your DH. He knew it was DN12 and then basically publicly humiliated him in front of the others. Of course DN smirked; it's a defence mechanism - what else was he meant to do in front if all the others? He shouldn't have thrown the shoes, but your DH should have acted like a grown up and had a quiet word with the boy. This is not funny and I imagine your problem is solved because if I was your SIL I wouldn't be allowing my children near him.

Your DH should grow up, apologise, and stop the baiting in future. It's not funny, it's nasty.

Your opening comments about her are completely subjective and you weren't there to witness the incident. You are an unreliable narrator.

But this is standard AIBU. One side of a story.

I don't get on with my sil and while we aren't no contact, it's very limited.

However I think your dh is massively to blame here. She has spent her life being baited by him, to the point she gets upset.

It's probably got to the point, where she is in edge and waiting for it whenever she is around him.

Maybe she isn't jealous. Maybe she is just in edge, that's why she seems to take things the wrong way. After s life time of being baited, I can see why she reacts as she does.

Your dh needs to stop purposely upsetting his sister.

Your husband is a nasty bully and your SIL apparently an easy target as she doesn't know how to cope with it and keeps on getting upset. Neither of them behaves like a sensible adult. It's a real shame as it does seem that your family Just lack the interpersonal skills/the will to get on (mostly down to your DH).

Her and your DH sound like apples from the same tree. Their relationship sounds very childlike. This can be a good thing. I often revert to a very childlike, giggly stance when I am with my sister and it is freeing. However it can also have negative connotations when sibling rivalries and insecurities fester. Even that would be ok if they kept it between themselves but it's not ok if they are acting out their personal and historic animosities on one another's children as appears to be the case here.

It would be a shame for the cousins on both sides to lose out on building their own relationships over this - could you arrange for them to spend time together without your DH or SIL both being present.

I have to admit that as much as I can have a childish giggle with my sister, like your DH and SIL we also snap into negative behaviour patterns which will result in one of us chucking our toys out of the pram and going NC for months/years. Eventually my normally very quiet and reserved BIL intervened. In a very gentle way he told me 'Just because your relationship with your sister can be pants,,it shouldn't mean our children can't have a better connection that you two do'. They were wise words and since then I have made every effort to ensure that our sometimes toxic sibling relationship is not harming the next generation of our family.

I've got a brother who thinks he is a comedian. In my whole life I can never remember a time I've been in the same room as him without him trying to make me feel small and stupid.
I haven't seen him in 7 years and it's bliss for me, he might be telling himself it's because I take things the wrong way and that's why we don't know each other now. But he is a bully, he always has been.

I bet your dh's mum always took his side too and is now continuing to do so plus doing the same with your children. It's adding insult to injury to not only have to put up with someone's snidy sense of humour (which is always at someone else's expense, even children), but then be told you're unreasonable for not finding in hilarious. Your poor sil. Have you ever thought that she might be jealous for a reason. Being treated like the less favoured child never goes away, especially if it's still happening now.

Your husband is a knob

Don't blame SIL for leaving. She's obviously put up with your husband crossing the line many many times and has had enough

Does your husband cross the line with anyone else?

I am loath to get involved between them to be honest. I have tried before and it has ended in disaster. My DH does realise how toxic their relationship is and how it affects other's, mainly me and my MIL (FIL has died) he promise's to try but can't seem to get past what she has done it the past.
It has got to the stage that I get apprehensive about family get togethers because I know it will end up with them two fighting. , and I absolutely hate it when she just turns up unexpectedly as she usually has some sort of agenda which results in a fight between them.

My MIL will not help, their relationship has always been very er....... "co-dependent" and my SIL withdraws my MIL's access to her children (it was three weeks last time) when my MIL does something she doesn't like. This means that my MIL enables my SIL's behaviour as she is scared that she will never see her grandkids again (she is in her eighties). I have had my MIL in tears over this on many occassions. (It's also one of the things my DH gets pissed off about because who wants to see their mother crying!)

Finally I get that kids misbehave, all of them, I am quite happy to tell them all off collectively as I am sure they all contributed to the idea (and for the record there was no way my 2 year could unlock the switch on the hose pipe, unwind & pull the pipe halfway across the garden and turn on the outside tap without help).

But when she storms out and tells me my 2 year old is a naughty boy because he shouldn't have led her kids astray and that her kids wouldn't have done, if it wasn't for my DS, I get a bit annoyed and then anxious because under any "normal" circumstances I would deal with it appropriately but I just freeze because I am scared she is going to do something violent in front of the kids (which she has done before).

I don't want to turn this into a SIL bashing because she does everything for my MIL, checks on her daily, takes her shopping etc (Please note I am not allowed to "help" as the last time I took MIL to M&S for a shopping trip my MIL didn't see her grandkids for a week as my SIL got the huff even though she couldn't take her as she was at work! So my MIL has explained that she doesn't want me to "help" in case that happens again) but I can't see the woods for the trees and it is now causing me sleepless nights.

Oh and my DH doesn't cross the line with anyone else just her! My DH is a manager by profession so he deals with everybody with all different viewpoints and backgrounds on a daily basis so I do find it difficult to explain why he is so shit to her!
He did say once that she brings out the worst in him while admitting that wasn't a good enough reason to bait her!

I think they should just be nc life's too short.

Regarding the shoes - I guess you child told you dn did it, dn told sil your ds did it. And you both believed your kids. Not sure that makes anyone u, apart from your dh who sounds like a bully and who should not have been telling off his sister's child when his sister was right there (wonder how you'd feel if she told off your ds in front of you, even if he had done something wrong). I feel very sorry for sil, sounds like she is consistently victimised in the extended family.

So you OH is capable of behaving like a normal human with everyone except his sister. Then he's the problem and he's well aware that he is but doesn't care about any of your family relationships enough to change his behaviour. The fact he is now dragging the children into it too is inexcusable.

Whether you to choose to enable and excuse this behaviour is up to you but odds are eventually the cousins become estranged if he tries to manipulate the kids into his childish scenarios as he did this time. His sister left because she didn't like him using the kids as pawns and I can't say I blame her.

I can explain why he's "so shit to her" . He wants to be centre of attention and he regards her as competition just as he did as a child.

Your problem is equally your dh and your sil. They have a family dynamic where they enjoy the drama and neither can back down for fear of losing. Both are selfish and immature twats to do this in front of their children and knowing they are upsetting their elderly mother.

If they haven't grown out of it by now I don't think there is a solution to their behaviour, I would withdraw myself from any family get togethers in the future, make it clear why and completely leave them to it. My dc would also not attend these family get togethers. I would invite the cousins to come and play/stay over without the mum, or my dc could go to SIL as long as dh wasn't there.

MIL doesn't want you to help as she's aware that it'll make him worse as hell use it to comment and interfere on what SIL regards as her territory and she won't want to risk accepting occasional help if it is likely to compromise the daily help SIL gives her. She's stuck in the middle.

" DH does deliberately bait his sister because he knows she doesn't "get" his humour. "

I wonder if he inflicts his 'humour' on anyone else like that?
somehow I doubt it.
your DH sounds like a bit of a twat IMO

I think he's a knob too tbh. In your situation I'd try and cultivate a relationship separate to him with your SIL but it may be too late as she's seen you condone his behaviour for years.

So your dh knows where the line is with everyone else, but not with his own sister?

DH sounds like a knob, but even worse he's prioritising his childish historic battle over the welfare of your dc and their relationship with their cousins. I don't have a great relationship with my sister too and have had ONE full blown row, I apologised to the all the children (for not setting a good example). My sister and I barely speak she's jealous immature and mean imo but that's MY side of the story and as a good dad and uncle (and tbf my sister is a good mum and auntie) we don't let our issues spill over into the next generation. I tutor all the children in the family twice a week and adore her son so would hate to go nc. Your DH and your SIL need to grow up for the sake of the children. If your husband is really as great a manager as you paint him out to be then it should be easy for him... unless he really is a nasty, manipulative, pathetic bully.

I think that your SiL should go NC with you and your DH.

Your DH sounds like an abusive bullying twat.