to think immigration is too high

[mamamea]

Net migration hit an all-time record high today, according to the Office of National Statistics:

www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/23/uk-population-grew-half-million-net-migration-ons

AIBU to think that given that England is already the second-most densely populated country of its size on the planet (behind only Bangladesh), that immigration is too high and should be reduced to zero, given that we also have a positive (and booming) natural population increase (deaths have never exceeded births in the UK, except perhaps during war)?

Why on earth would we possibly want to pack more and more people into an ever smaller space?

mamamea
We have natural population growth through childbirth, we do not need net immigration on top of that.
Um no
Western Europe including the UK has had birth rates at below replacement level for over 30 years now.

Without increased longevity and immigration we would be facing an actual decline in the population by now
as happened in Japan for the first time this year.

And the old people need young workers to look after them
which is why the UK has high immigration and low unemployment

ODFOD OP.

HTH.

milkbottle
Maple syrup with bacon on the side
but then I am an immigrant

Mumsnetters, I love you all!

Despite the fact that the OP is still clinging on, you have managed to punch numerous holes in a boringly flawed argument.

This has made my day. REMAIN ALL THE WAY!!

I think bacon on a pancake is an abomination. I should probably vote UKIP.

Blueberries, banana, maple syrup, cream. I like my pancakes like I like my country - diverse and populous.

Every time OP posts another immigrant enters the country. Hurrah!

This thread has made me hungry 😋

INNNNNNNNNNNNN

by the way
Waffles have to be served either Belgian style with squirty cream
or US style with maple syrup
or summer style with blueberries piled all over them

Japan is already ahead of where we are projected to be, in terms of % of elderly population. They maintain high living standards.

Oh dear. You might want to do some reading on this. Japan is in huge bloody trouble. Abe has actually created a minister for demographic issues. He's cut subsidies for aged care facilities because the costs are spiralling. Its national debt is twice GDP (and was already out of control before the 2011 earthquake). The situation is only predicated to get worse as the population continues to decline after its 2010 peak. Economist after economist is calling for immigration to US/Germany style levels but instead they are trying to put in place measures to boost fertility (which of course is more expensive as you have to educate and train those children and assume they will remain into their own old age; a significant percentage of immigrants will return home). Right now most of its debt is in government bonds (so citizen-finances) but as the population ages and declines more and more people are going to need that money back.

We have natural population growth through childbirth, we do not need net immigration on top of that.

Yeah, no. The sums don't add up, particularly in the short to medium term.

Well there was me thinking the birth rate had been declining and it was EU immigration that had pushed it back up again. So without immigration we wouldn't be replenishing the population but with the immigrants replenishing the population you say we don't need immigrants.
It's all a bit circular...

Personally I prefer a piadina to a pancake but that's because I descend from Italian immigrants.

< views

Japan is already ahead of where we are projected to be, in terms of % of elderly population. They maintain high living standards

Ok. Japan and the UK are not dissimilar in (liveable) size. Japan is slightly bigger but has far more uninhabitable areas, unlike the UK. Possibly even when compared to England - there are a lot of heavily populated cities and miles and miles of uninhabited mountain areas.

Population comparison - UK = 65 million ish, Japan 127 million ish.

127 million.

127 million.

That's roughly double
And to quote you, they (apparently) maintain high living standards.

So, as proved by your own example, we'll be ok then won't we

(Fun fact: Japan's large elderly population + low birth rate + low immigration issue is actually causing them shedloads of problems. Some politicians are opening up to the idea of immigration as the country is absolutely struggling without it. The more you know, op!)

Oops!

Tell you what OP, you can count one of them in your British-born birth rate figures.

x posts with jassy

And OP - one (only one!) of my children is foreign born. I'm British, and he's British too!

Japan is a super bad example on either of those points.

Oh Daphne and Jassy - bullying the OP with your facts and evidence

This is why we can't have a Proper Debate about Immigration - because it keeps being derailed by the truth.

mamamea's been at the Stella I see.

Sorry, Ritchy, you're quite right.

Ah, that's where my missing copy is, Jassy has it ....
and we all have to wait an extra day to get this week's one

NI registrations do not mean you are paying taxes at all, much less a net overall contributor

Again, wrong in most cases. DH for example (and he is one example of many) has to have an NI number to work. He works, pays NI contributions, pays tax and claims no benefits. He can't, he's a non EU immigrant. He shops like his life depends on it, and I wouldn't be surprised if he's contributed more to the British economy than me, as I was a sahm mum for a couple of years and claimed income support once about 15 years ago. Maybe they should deport you me

I'm so sorry
Fuck me, fuck my facts, getting in the way of nonsensical ranting