to think immigration is too high

[mamamea]

Net migration hit an all-time record high today, according to the Office of National Statistics:

www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/23/uk-population-grew-half-million-net-migration-ons

AIBU to think that given that England is already the second-most densely populated country of its size on the planet (behind only Bangladesh), that immigration is too high and should be reduced to zero, given that we also have a positive (and booming) natural population increase (deaths have never exceeded births in the UK, except perhaps during war)?

Why on earth would we possibly want to pack more and more people into an ever smaller space?

I"m willing to chip in for a plane ticket OP, if you're finding it too crowded. I hear Somalia has a beautiful coastline and no boring red tape. You'd love it.

It's past ten op, your last push attempt to get leave votes is done.

The real question now is will you be back or not?

"You do realise that the foreign-BORN population includes your probably beloved Boris Johnson, right?"

I'm not really clear on your point.

Alex is that you? Polling has closed love, it's best you stop banging on about it now.

I'm not really clear on your point. I was responding to someone who made a clearly false statement on people with ginger hair outnumbering immigrants

My POINT, as a pp has pointed out was that foreign-born is misleading. BoJo is foreign born, as are a large number of completely 'British' people. I was born in another EU country because my parents were working there at the time. I have at no time been entitled to eligible to apply for citizenship of the country I was born in, because I have no link to it apart from the fact that it happened to be where my mother gave birth to me. My domicile of origin is and always has been the UK.

Therefore, using foreign-born population stats to indicate the number of immigrants in the country is very misleading.

"Also, England is not an independent sovereign state. "

England is a clearly demarcated nation. The idea that England doesn't exist is ludicrous.

"Firstly, how do you know all immigration is to England?"

I didn't actually say that, but statistics are readily available.

"Anyway, Nige, I suggest you take your racist trolling elsewhere because I don't think you will get much of an audience here. I bet you're also of the kind that doesn't view Americans, Australians and Canadians as 'real immigrants'?"

Racist?
Americans, Australians and Canadians?
What the actual fuck are you talking about?

Is this really that hard to understand that you must resort to insults?

Britain's population is growing by millions every few years, mostly due to immigration (I am not clear why you are determined to try and start a race war on this issue). Most of this population growth accrues in specific, already highly populated areas, which face structural pressures as a result.

Great. Two points:

First, why are you using the slightly discredited simple population density figure rather than population density in habitable areas? Both are readily available.

Second, what's your plan for your demographic time bomb? Your demographic bulge is hitting the public purse hard and that will endure for several decades - as the biggest demographic group ever to retire is also living significantly longer than any generation before them, with attendant costs to the NHS and pensions budget. Immigrants (and in particular EU immigrants) are net contributors to the Exechequer. What's your plan for public funding without the immigrant subsidy?

Ive had the same shit coming down my fb page from someone i went to school with..........someone in their forties who has NEVER had a paid job. Shes in the Vote Leave camp.

She tends to forget my DM isnt British.

My DM finally retired six months ago after FIFTY years of working in factories. She turned 80 four months ago,

The whole attitude really fucks me off!!

If the result of today's vote is Leave, it will be partly the fault of posters like the majority on this thread, who for years have refused to allow people to discuss the issue of immigration without calling them racist. Even the Labour party have admitted this now, that this has been a mistake. Jesus the level of vitriol in some of the posts above. Whether you agree with Mamamea or not, it doesn't reflect well on you to resort to sneery sarcasm and name calling. The OP said nothing racist, and discussed only facts. She did not descend to your level.

And before you start hurling abuse at me too, I voted Remain. But I've really hated the abysmal level of 'debate' on here.

"OP the percentage of immigrants in Britain is between 0.5% and 0.8% (if you want to question the statistic, it's highlighted in the link in your first post )"

" I am no mathematician"

Evidently. The matter discussed in the OP is the rate of population change in the last 12 months alone, due to net immigration (and also due to natural population growth, i.e. births - deaths).

This is NOT the same thing as the number of immigrants in the UK, given that most people will stay in the UK longer than a year. The total proportion of immigrants in the UK, is, as I said, 13%+. (But again, the TOTAL numbers was NOT my point, which is about the rate of population growth caused by immigration, I merely refuted an obviously false claim about people with ginger hair).

Yawn

Racist?
Americans, Australians and Canadians?
What the actual fuck are you talking about?

In my experience, many people like you (and the daily mail) do not seem to have an issue with a certain type of immigrant. The DM ran numerous 'shock' stories about how hard working Canadians were being sent back home while we freely let in one-eyed Albanian rapists and shower them with money. I have American friends who have pointed out when people have been ranting about immigration, that they themselves are immigrants. They have then been told 'oh, i don't mean people like YOU'. Meaning that the real issue seems to be skin colour, language and religion.

And as for England being a sovereign state, no it is NOT. Go and read the definition of a sovereign state or whatever. I could also moan that Birmingham has a high population density. More people live in England than in Scotland, yes, but statistics are and have to be based on the UK as a whole.

If you complain about immigration, you're racist. This country is a piece of land. It doesn't belong to us. We have no right to a decent quality of life, free from pain or suffering or fear of war than someone born in Eritrea. And population density here is lower than in Belgium or the Netherlands.

If you think it's too crowded, move to another European country which is a bit less crowded. Well, unless we've just voted to leave, in which case you've fucked up

What would be the population of the UK if every native British speaker came back?

So if the population change in 12 months alone from immigrants is 0.5%, how can the "millions and millions of people" our population is growing by each year be 'mostly immigrants' as per your previous post?

Also, you are confusing the term 'foreign-born' with 'immigrant'. I am foreign-born. So were all my siblings. We have British passports, and British parents. So do many others in that figure you keep quoting.

"First, why are you using the slightly discredited simple population density figure rather than population density in habitable areas? Both are readily available."

Population density is a more readily available figure, you can substitute your own figures if you wish; my main point here was that England is the most densely populated major country in Europe - it suffers from straining services, traffic and high house prices as a result.

"Second, what's your plan for your demographic time bomb?"

Japan is already ahead of where we are projected to be, in terms of % of elderly population. They maintain high living standards.

We have natural population growth through childbirth, we do not need net immigration on top of that.

And as for England being a sovereign state, no it is NOT. Go and read the definition of a sovereign state or whatever

I mean INDEPENDENT sovereign state btw- sorry, just to clarify

Is this another Leave thread?

"And as for England being a sovereign state, no it is NOT. "

What the actual fuck? Where did you get the idea from that I said it was?

England is a country within the United Kingdom.

This really is not a confusing or difficult concept to understand.

my main point here was that England is the most densely populated major country in Europe

But it's NOT though. Even if you do count England as separate, Holland is more densely populated.

www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/356

mamamea
I take it you are quite happy to take the word of

• the Rothermeres (own the Daily Mail) - domiciled in France to avoid UK tax
• the Barclays (own the telegraph) - domiciled in the Channel Islands to avoid UK tax

so those sort of "forriners" are fine ?

*"And as for England being a sovereign state, no it is NOT. "

What the actual fuck? Where did you get the idea from that I said it was?*

Look, I was pointing out why England should not be counted separately. You don't for example see the US population density defined by a particular state. I explained that England is not an independent sovereign state. You then told me that it is a clearly demarcated boundary etc. Re-read your posts rather than just reacting with 'what the actual fuck' to everything.

We have natural population growth through childbirth, we do not need net immigration on top of that.

Oh you get to decide all that, do you?

So what's everyone's favourite thing to put on pancakes? Personally I love a bit of honey!

Yes, well, maybe if they hadn't shoved so many of our ancestors into the military/trenches/concentration camps etc, murdered MILLIONS of us and then laughed at the descendants for being poor and mucky, there wouldn't be these 'civilizational' problems would there? They shot so many of us, handed the survivors a bible and told us Jesus loves us. We gave up in response. My husband is an immigrant and he is lovely. There is no way I would have considered marrying one of these thugs and those were pretty much our only options growing up. Everyone else was DEAD or not having kids.

"So if the population change in 12 months alone from immigrants is 0.5%, how can the "millions and millions of people" our population is growing by each year be 'mostly immigrants' as per your previous post? "

It really is not that difficult to read and quote what I actually said:

"Britain's population is growing by millions every few years, mostly due to immigration"

Let me break that down:

"Britain's population" - the total population of Britain
"is growing" - is increasing
"by millions" - i.e. at least two million (this is around 3%, by the way - 0.5% per year for a few years quickly adds up)
"every few years" - in this case approximately four years
"mostly due to immigration" - of that growth, more than 50% is due to immigration