to say no to my tenant's request?

[akdmummy]

I let out a 2 bed house. It also has a loft conversion that doesn't comply to building regs. Now the tenant has said that they want to use it as a 3rd bedroom and will have to leave if they can't use it as a bedroom.

I am uncomfortable with allowing the space to be used as a bedroom given potential insurance and safety issues. WIBU to say no, therefore effectively making the tenant move out or am I being too cautious - (the conversion has been there for a long time and has been used by previous owners as a bedroom in the past)?

lots of people use loft conversions that don't comply to building regs as bedrooms, for example the top two rooms in my dad's house cannot be described as 'bedrooms' by estate agents, but are used as such, and have been for years.

The problem is that tenants cannot really make that decision, because if anything were to go wrong, the landlord would be responsible.

By the way, you may find that Building Control are not able to give you a list of everything you need to do to change the purpose of a room.
We have a similar loft conversion and when we approached Building Control thy advised there were so many regulations and they couldn't check things like insulation etc once the plasterboard was in place so wewere probably best off to get the whole thing re-done from scratch.

OP my local council issues a written guidance from Building Control listing the major issues for a loft conversion, it also says that these guidelines apply 'no matter what the use of the rooms in the loft space' which I take to mean whether they are intended as habitable, or occasional rooms.

The main factors are

1. Access. A proper stairway unless in exceptional circumstances they may allow an alternate tread staircase or a fixed ladder. A retractable ladder is not suitable.
2. Roof Void Ventilation.
3. Strenth of roof joists to support the floor.
4. Fire Resistance including the floor of the loft rooms and the ceilings of the rooms below.
5. Means of Fire Escape and fire protection for the whole building.

They also suggest full working drawings rather than building notice.

I've spoken to Building Control and Private Sector Housing at our local council along with the Surveyor who did our survey when we bought the house and they are all of the same mind as most of you - that we should say no to it being used as a bedroom, so that's what I have done.

They all advised the quickest (and cost free) method of finding out what needs to be done to get it up to safety standards would be to get a local reputable builder with loft conversion experience to take a look so I will do that, but I have a feeling that it is going to be an expensive job to sort and one that even if we decide to go ahead will not be feasible with the tenants in situ.

I feel bad for the tenants as they may feel the need to move out, but I'm not prepared to compromise their safety to make life easier.

Now I guess I need to look into what happens with the rental agreement if they do want to leave given that they signed a 1 year lease just before we bought the place in March...

not sure what the outcome will be OP in future but good luck to you.

Too often landlords are painted as greedy (which you aren't) and you are only interested in doing the right thing as well as obviously charging a reasonable market rent as any sane person would do. Any normal person like you would also be devastated if something happened had the loft been used normally as a bedroom without conversion/consent etc.

It's a shame for them they signed a new lease. In cases such as these, you can give them permission to break the contract early with certain stipulations such as paying up until the new tenants move in.

I would probably give them permission to break but they pay rent until you find a suitable replacement (however long that takes) and they pay all your costs associated with that eg estate agent fees.

Thanks SFH.

Janecc - thanks for that I'll bear that in mind.

I'm a private tenant fwiw

Yadnbu at all!!! Agree with everything about an official letter to them forbidding use of the loft for anything other than storage, and that doing so is a breach of their tenancy. You're not changing anything that you or they have previously agreed too, just ensuring that changes aren't made that aren't legal or safe!

They chose a 2 bed house. They chose to have another child. They chose to sign another year long contract. It doesn't sound like they asked about a third bedroom more like they told you they were doing it and you said hang on its not legal or safe to do that, so they got cross.

If they want a third bedroom they'll have to move. They've recently signed s contract so will have to wait til the end of that to move.

Id say contact citizens advice to make sure youre covered on this. Youd assume that once youve formally informed them the space isnt to be used that you wouldnt be held accountable but that mightnt be the case.

Say no. If it has not got building regulations/ doesn't comply it cannot be used as a bedroom. The Land Lords Forum is very useful for questions like this.

YANBU. You would be unreasonable to allow them to use the loft as an additional bedroom.

And it sounds like the cost of converting it would be uneconomic....access in the event of a fire, roof height, insulation, making the walls fire retardant etc. would be necessary and there is no way that the capital cost would make it worthwhile. And if you were to go down this root, then how would your tenants cope with the works (I can see another issue arising!).

They chose a two-bed property and the rent presumably reflects that, so they should accept that. Sounds to me like a try-on.

With MapMyMum, I would check your current arrangements/lease to make sure you are covered. Hopefully, the lease will set out that the loft should only be used for storage. If not, send a letter confirming that you have always made this clear (hopefully that is the case) and that they are not to use it as a third bedroom. You should give some serious thought to covering yourself if things do go pear-shaped.

I think you need to be making regular checks they aren't using it as a bedroom, before they move out.
Some people are a law unto themselves.
Find out when new baby due and when you do checks make sure the other kids beds are still in the bedroom.

I may be wrong but once you have more than five people in a rented house arent you supposed to have two toilets?(your property may have if course)
D2 lived as a student in a house with seven bedrooms (two in the loft with proper stairs )but landlord could let it to only 5.
And DD 1 lived in the loft conversion of a house rented by friends but strictly 'off the record'I assume landlord would put up their rent had he known.Did mean she couldn't claim housing benefit when unemployed though .Your sins do find you out....

Please say No. A landlords responsibilities are a minefield. Put it in writing and recorded delivery. A proper loft extension must comply with building regs.

post there are different rules for family and non-family sharers.

If the room has a permanent access ie a staircase as opposed to a moveable ladder it has to legally meet building regs.Full stop.Doesn't matter what it is used for.

Snowy even if the room was constructed in the 70s and hasn't been used except for storage/ a study since? Can building regs be applied retrospectively?

Absolutely not. That's an accident waiting to happen.

What would it take to get it up to regulation??

I have recently done a loft conversion . Get out the local building control officer from the council and they will be able to tell you what you need to do to get building control certificate passed. Things like a fire escape window are a must. If you want more info just pm me

DailyFailAteMyFish that is MAGNIFICENTLY unhelpful of your local building control. Rip it out and start again???? FFS Get a reputable loft builder round, he'll open a couple of walls, check ventilation etc and go from there. I'm honestly cross you were given such 'computer says no, can't be arsed to help' advice, it's like donning belt, then braces - then a spacesuit.

OP, think your plan sounds spot on. Legal it up to protect yourself as suggested and see what happens with your tenants. You have a legal duty to provide a property that complies with regs, and to comply with the terms of your contract. The tenants have a legal duty to comply with the contract as well. You do not have to police your tenants, nor should you.
Neglectful, my hairy bottom.

Send a letter to tenants saying that the loft space does not meet building or fire regulations and therefor cannot be used as a bedroom...the space is for storage only. Then you are covered if they stay and do use it as a bedroom against your wishes. If they leave just get new tenants.
Our oldest son lived in the loft for 2 years accessed only via a ladder but he did have Velux windows and would have been able to get to garage roof in an emergency, but legally it was only classed as storage. x

Do you have a managing agent? If not get advise. You need to know your legal position .

Building regs re 'legal' loft conversions used to be tied up with how long ago the conversion was done ie more than 12 years ago with regard to a sale of a property. BUT that may not be relevant with regard to rental, please do your homework with regard to this. I can only speak historically. But it makes sense to thoroughly check this out.

Why don't you get an indemnity policy to cover the loft room. It's a one off payment for things done by previous owners that aren't up to building regs. If you state it is not a bedroom surely it's up to the tenant how they use it?