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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to say no to my tenant's request?

114 replies

akdmummy · 20/06/2016 01:31

I let out a 2 bed house. It also has a loft conversion that doesn't comply to building regs. Now the tenant has said that they want to use it as a 3rd bedroom and will have to leave if they can't use it as a bedroom.

I am uncomfortable with allowing the space to be used as a bedroom given potential insurance and safety issues. WIBU to say no, therefore effectively making the tenant move out or am I being too cautious - (the conversion has been there for a long time and has been used by previous owners as a bedroom in the past)?

OP posts:
whois · 20/06/2016 08:30

Why on earth would you let a home with a substandard conversion

Because it's a storage space that is more easily accessable than a loft with a ladder FFS.

People need to wind their necks in.

OP I would write to the remnants and to the agents saying the loft room is not a bedroom and it is to be used only for storage. No one is to sleep in there.

Then get agents to do an inspection to check that is the case periodically.

LunaLoveg00d · 20/06/2016 08:36

Landlord is screwed as the tenants habe asked for it to be remedied and both sides know it is substandard.

They didn't though - they didn't ask the landlord to make it a habitable space, they just said they were planning on using the space as it is for a bedroom. I'm not a lawyer so advised the OP further up to take legal advice to cover her arse ;-)

reup · 20/06/2016 08:41

You don't need to have fire doors or all doors in your house if you have a loft conversion but you have to have a mains fitted smoke alarm in all rooms instead. It's safer anyway as who closes every room in their house all the time? We're just going through this with building regs.

louisagradgrind · 20/06/2016 08:46

They must be in a fragile situation with another baby on the way, not enough room and renting with what will be three children. Try to be understanding.

SuperFlyHigh · 20/06/2016 09:05

I don't know get proper legal stance on this but take legal advice and act accordingly.

The OP as landlord may not want for whatever reason the loft to be turned into a bedroom - she's within her rights as landlord.

Also wouldn't put it past tenants to use as bedroom anyway so would get legal advice and try to get them evicted. Sounds as if tenants want to stay at cheaper rent they are currently paying or for it not to go up much more to use loft as bedroom. They may even think that as its a "loft" and not a proper bedroom per se but has been used as one then it doesn't really matter that they use it as a bedroom and this appears to be their reasoning. I also would not be happy with blackmailing tenants.

SuperFlyHigh · 20/06/2016 09:07

BeBop the fun the tenants will have when they try to rent a 3 bedroom property at market rates will be their business!

LettyJane · 20/06/2016 09:11

It certainly does not break the law to have storage space and the fact people might choose to sleep in it in breach of the tenancy does not put the landlord at fault. Most of us when letting a place with a loft ladder don't lock up that loft hatch just in case someone silly chooses to let 5 men sleep up there and nor is there a legal requirement to do so, nor do you have to block off sace on the landing just in case someone chooses to sleep there or on the kitchen floor. However you may want to write to them reminding them that as under the lease currentl in place they have let a 2 bed room property and it is not safe nor permitted to sleep in the loft conversion.

Momamum · 20/06/2016 09:24

Totally agree with LettyJanes last sentence, above^.

Btw I rent. Like being called a remnant Grin

scaryteacher · 20/06/2016 09:27

Our property has a boarded attic, and a room next to it that I used as a study. It is accessed by an open staircase, and you have to duck your head when going down the stairs from it. It was done in the 70s by a previous owner and complied with what building regs there were at the time. We used it for excess books, and when we move back, I'll use it as a sewing room.

It is made clear to tenants that it is not a bedroom, and I will not be doing any work to make it such.

AFAIK current building regs cannot be applied retrospectively to old existing work, otherwise Georgian houses like mine would have to be demolished.

HopeArden · 20/06/2016 09:40

People always go ott on these threads. The OP hasn't done anything wrong - she oens a 2 bedroom house which is rented as a 2 bedroom house. The tenants haven't done anything wrong either - they've asked a question to which the OP can reply in writing that they cannot use the lift as a bedroom. Job done. Not sure why people push for her to evict them (a family with small kids Shock ) or go to the expense of making the loft liveable if she doesn't want to.

MackerelOfFact · 20/06/2016 09:42

Exactly what LettyJane said.

A loft conversion that doesn't meet building regulations is just a loft. A slightly nicer, easier-to-access loft. Renting out a property with a loft isn't neglectful. The OP has never claimed that the loft is a bedroom.

IMO the conversion is neither here nor there. They shouldn't be using the loft as a bedroom because it's a LOFT and therefore not safe for bedroom use and could cause harm to the tenants and/or the property.

APlaceOnTheCouch · 20/06/2016 09:46

YWNBU to say no. In fact you would have been UR if you had said 'yes'.

Do put it in writing that they asked for permission and that you didn't grant that permission and that the loft is for storage only.

Ignore all the nonsense posts about you being neglectful. Lots of properties have loft space that isn't suitable for a bedroom. It's fairly common and it's the letting agent and the owners responsibility to let the tenants know that it doesn't meet that criteria and can't be used as such.

specialsubject · 20/06/2016 09:47

The landlord hate is indeed tedious. The property has two bedrooms. If the tenants have chosen to have more children than they have space for, they either squeeze up or move.

The loft does not meet regs to be used as a bedroom.

ThenLaterWhenItGotDark · 20/06/2016 09:48

Knew the landlordhatingfreeloaders would be out in force when I saw the tenant word in the OP.

Absolutely do what others have said OP, recorded delivery letter telling them the loft is a loft and not suitable for a bedroom.

As is often said on threads about people living in flats....they don't like it, they move into a mansion ;-)

RobinsAreTerritorialFuckers · 20/06/2016 09:49

Goodness, people are ridiculous.

Tenants conscientiously checking whether they could be granted permission for something is 'blackmail'? The LL is 'negligent'?

What a load of rubbish on both counts. OP, just say no, sorry.

As a tenant, I would also make my LL the first port of call if I thought s/he might be able to let me stay in this situation, because I'd want to know. And LL generally want to keep good tenants. But I would also understand if it wasn't doable, which sounds like the case here.

It's really odd to say suspiciously the tenants are looking for a three-bed place at a two-bed rent. If that were true, they wouldn't have bothered to ask about use, would they? Tenants are (mostly) almost indistinguishable from real human beings. Some of them would actually care about the safety of a room they're proposing to put their children in, and would therefore want to as the LL about it. Amazing, I know.

ThenLaterWhenItGotDark · 20/06/2016 09:52

And use the words "loft" and "storage space" or whatever in your letter. Avoid using the word "bedroom" .

"strongly advise the tenant not to use the loft area bla bla for any reason (other than storage) due to potential safety hazards due to said space not being classified as suitable for any other use" etc etc.

MrsJayy · 20/06/2016 09:56

Last year a house fire killed 2 children in a converted loft which wasnt passed as standard either get the converstion checked out say no but the tenants might use it anyway

venys · 20/06/2016 10:02

We have a non conforming loft in our owned house. The Local Authority council are not being straight forward as to the design to fix it. I would go private building control as they may be more forthcoming. Have a look at the fire regs and see if you can forward the docs to the tenants to explain why you can't at this point allow the loft as a bedroom. And if you are able to explain just what is required for it to conform and that the rent would have to go up to help. Many tenants have absolutely no clue as to the hoops you have to jump through to maintain a house. Just moan about unreasonable landlords and the price of the rent.

PolitelyDisagree · 20/06/2016 10:19

OP, YANBU

If you wanted, I guess you could explore the possibility of converting the attic and increasing the tenants rent accordingly.

Original poster
akdmummy · 20/06/2016 10:37

Thanks everyone for the advice. I plan to do as many of you have suggested and write a formal letter to them stating the loft space should only be used for storage and for no other purpose. We will be able to 'police' this as (with the tenants permission) we will be going into the property to do quite a bit of updating over the next few months as the house wasn't looked after properly by the previous owner.

I will also get building reg people in to tell me what needs to happen to make it a proper 3 bed and will take a view from there. If it is feasible financially and practically to be done with the tenants in situ and we feel it is the right thing for the house then we will give them this option (with a subsequent rent review to reflect it would now be a 3 bed house).

louisagradgrind - I fully understand that they must be in turmoil at the prospect of having to move house with a young family and a baby on the way - they have made that clear to me - but I (and they) would be in even more turmoil should I agree to this and then something happen to their kids. I would honestly prefer to lose out financially than put anyone in danger in any property I was renting out.

OP posts:
WeekendAway · 20/06/2016 11:19

They must be in a fragile situation with another baby on the way, not enough room and renting with what will be three children. Try to be understanding.

What do you mean by that? I'm sure the OP is perfectly reasonable and understanding but it doesn't mean she's necessarily in a position to shell out large sums of money for work she didn't anticipate right now.

They chose to rent a two bed house and they already have two children. They should have given some thought to how they might accommodate a third before they decided to have it, or just accept that they'll squeeze in and make do, until they can afford to move.

You know - like people who own their houses have to do - they can't make their problems someone else's responsibility to solve.

WeekendAway · 20/06/2016 11:21

louisa's comment makes it sound like the OP has moved the goalposts. She hasn't. They have.

Pinkheart5915 · 20/06/2016 11:24

I would say no if it was of my tenants.

You rented out a 2 bedroom they can't decide to make it a 3 once they've moved in Confused that isn't how it works.

Pinkheart5915 · 20/06/2016 11:24

One of my

SuperFlyHigh · 20/06/2016 13:08

You're being far too nice op. I hope you increase rent accordingly if you do do work to convert.