To be considering a doctorate?

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It's not as if I need one (does anyone?) but I am thinking about it. I already hold an MEd and I'm just finishing an MA in Special and Inclusive Education. With the OU an EdD would take 3.5 years from next May with a 50,000 word thesis (which will make the 20,000 word dissertation I'm ploughing through now seem like a short story). We are planning to emigrate in two years' time and I work full time as a primary teacher. Am I deluded?!

I think a lot of academics on the thread have missed the point about a professional doctorate!

Quite the contrary - I externally examine on the course work of one programme, and know people who've done them.

It's more of a vocational qualification I guess.

This is the problem, really. It's not the same as a standard PhD, as it's not the major sustained extended piece of work - part of the word count is a series of short essays, focused on research methods etc.

The better programmes require that the shorter pieces are of publishable standard - but I"m not sure that the essays ever are published in peer-reviewed scholarly journals. The less challenging professional doctoral programmes ask that these shorter essays are on things such as research methods - this is work that is part of a standard PhD, but is usually absorbed into the larger argument, rather than presented as part of the 'original contribution to knowledge." (Although of course sometimes a new method can be the original contribution).

I recognise the role of professional doctorates but I am uneasy/ambivalent about them: I think that overall, they probably do constitute a lowering of standards. And while standards are lowered all over the place (mostly due to the A Level syllabus no longer being fit for the purpose of university preparation) we have long been able to be certain of the PhD as a reasonably unassailable standard.

passing modules

But you see, for those of us committed to serious research, "passing modules" is not what a PhD is about ...

I'd never even heard of professional doctorates before this thread!

There's certainly a place for further research in professional fields, but PhD seems like an odd term for it - it seems more like an MBA by how it's being described ( or have I got this wrong?)

I would assume not as a PhD doesn't have modules. That bit about serious research was a bit pointlessly nasty Foggy. Also lowering the standards. Thanks.

It isn't a PhD. It is a doctorate though.

Are professional doctorates called PhDs? I've seen EdD, MD, DPsych, EngD etc, so they are clearly differentiated. Perhaps not all are?

Not pointessly nasty - if you read my posts, you'll see I externally examine these degrees. Just a concern about a lowering of the gold standard of the PhD - the highest level of degree you can actually earn (rather than have conferred). I am ambivalent. And I'm generally concerned about the future of what was one of the most rigorous education systems in the world.

Elllicam's isn't a PhD. It's a Dsomethingelse. Does that make a difference?

I honestly don't know. I only have experience of the PhD. To me that's independent research producing a significant contribution to the field (although if I'm honest mine was a teeny tiny footnote in the field of cancer and development.)

The different designation (engD etc) seems to mark them clearly as being professional rather than research.

If it's any consolation one of the MDs at our firm had a hissy fit at us mere PhDs being called dr 🙄 (Shuffles back into her place in the pecking order...)

Ellicam I wouldn't worry no one doing a PhD feels like a proper academic

I wouldn't for one minute doubt that you work incredibly hard and are very committed to what you're doing and I haven't been trying to put anyone off more just help them go in with realistic expectations. Mainly to counter the idea that if you like studying you'll enjoy a PhD. What I do is not studying I may or may not reached the stage of growling at people who ask me how my studying is going

I had heard about professional doctorates but had never given any thought to what one was and whether it was different to a PhD. In terms of modules I do know that in some cases it is now a requirement for all PhD students to spend a year doing a masters in research methods before starting. Which sounds sensible on the one hand and revenue generating for universities on the other.

My sister has just completed her second doctorate and did it from overseas through Middlesex university. The first one she did through an Australian university. She had to come back a few weeks ago to attend the university and graduates on the 15 of next month. She is single and has no family so plenty time, she also has a full time job but even when she came home at Christmas she was working on it. She is 62 btw.

Professional doctorates are another way for universities to create new income streams. PhD's have almost exclusively been undertaken by those who want to go into academia & there have therefore never been huge numbers of students.

Yes meme there are a lot of us who would relish the chance of studying at that level but don't want to go into academia.

The advice I was given by a professor was to pick what I wanted it for as both degrees are just as demanding but likely to open different doors.

It's an interesting debate. I don't think anyone is undermining the professional doctorate, but if it is possible to do one, part time, in 3.5 years, then I would question its equivalency.

And passing modules is not something I associate with PhD study. No matter how difficult or rigorous those modules. Because PhD is all about original contribution.

Having said all of that, I also question whether the PhD contribution to original research is worth all that at the end of the day. Mine (humanities) was ultimately only read by a handful of people. The articles I published off the back of it read by more, but the reach is not exactly huge. So just because it's hard to achieve, doesn't necessarily mean it's useful or important.

I would absolutely be open to the idea that a professional doctorate is of more use to society.

I'm not aware of any where it takes a shorter period of time than the PhD Laurie. I haven't looked at the OU but the unis I have looked at who offer it have it in the same timescale, 3 years full time 6 part time. I like the fact it's more structured ; I know a good PhD supervisor ensures structure but I like it being there in the programme set up. I think for those of us in practice rather than research shorter pieces are often not only easier to fit into our work but also more likely to have practical purpose in our work.

I will be 6 years by the time I finish.

Do you mind me asking if you are doing an EdD or something else?

Apologies, not sure where I got the 3.5 from, think I misread something up thread.

In the end, I did 4 years full time with a further 9 months part time. I would certainly not have been able to do it in 6 years part time, but then I was slower than most.

A professional doctorate is now the entry route for some professions, Ed Psych for example.