To be considering a doctorate?

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It's not as if I need one (does anyone?) but I am thinking about it. I already hold an MEd and I'm just finishing an MA in Special and Inclusive Education. With the OU an EdD would take 3.5 years from next May with a 50,000 word thesis (which will make the 20,000 word dissertation I'm ploughing through now seem like a short story). We are planning to emigrate in two years' time and I work full time as a primary teacher. Am I deluded?!

You see, malvin managed to state the case clearly and without sounding like they were the proprietor of some exclusive club that they didn't want the OP admitted into.

And you think I sounded that way? Gee, thanks.

I deliberately didn't name any of the posters, robin, so no, I didn't say anything about your posts.

I think all these things you get out if it what you put in. I wouldn't worry whether one supposedly better than the other. It depends what you are wanting to gain from it.

I have two degrees, one from a RG uni, a traditional "hard" subject. And another from part ou part college. The latter is the one I use for jobs. It's much more lucrative and flexible.

You replied to me, suburban, when I said I'd not meant to come across that way, telling me I did. I'm not sure why you need to pick a fight about it, but FGS if you're going to have a go, don't pretend you've not done so.

Ok at the risk of this sounding childish, I referred to the sentiments on "the posts", not in "your posts", but feel free to take offence where none was directed at you.

I teach on several professional doctorates, at a RG university. My university views them as equivalent in research terms to a Ph.D. - and has quite strict regulations in place to try and ensure that they are.
The 50,000 word thesis is only part of the doctorate, there's usually a portfolio of other shorter pieces of work, all of which are marked at doctoral level, and which maybe add up to 70-80,000 words altogether.

They're very popular and increasingly being set up around the country, as a way of harnessing the professional or clinical skills of experienced people, and tying that in to doctoral level research.

Some people from ours do go on into academia, generally in areas of the clinical or professional fields they are already working in. Others do them for professional development, others for personal satisfaction.

It's a bit like doing a Ph.D. by paper publication - not a traditional single thesis, but considered to be equivalent.

But on the question of working full time and doing a professional doctorate - most people struggle with the time commitment if they are working full time. A few manage it - those with jobs they have quite a lot of flexibility in or control over, and if they don't have children at home, and if they are single or have a supportive partner.

Generally, we recommend that students have at least one day free a week, plus time at weekends/evenings. Otherwise, it's very hard and those students working full time in stressful jobs are the most likely to drop out.

I wonder if certain posters on here meant to sound so rude?

Fitbit - go for it. Absolutely, 100%, go for it.

I wonder if certain posters on here meant to sound so rude?

As Henry Kissinger said, the reason why disputes in academia are so vitriolic is because the stakes are so low.

I certainly didn't intend to be snobbish or rude. I'd genuinely never heard of a taught PhD. Now I have

I didn't mean to, in my first post. I did feel fairly snippy when an apology brought another load of patronising criticism, however.

The OP may be totally bored/put off now, but I hope not.

because the stakes are so low.
and that's not rude?

The stakes may seem low to those outside HE, but think about it - if you want your children to be taught in one of the best HE systems in the world, then concerns about standards are very important.

So for your children, maybe the stakes aren't "so low."

I've actually been external examiner for course work on a professional doctorate programme. The standards are high, I'm one of the many externals across the country who ensures that - but they are not the same as the 'normal' PhD, and the type of purpose for the professional doctorate is different. It's a tricky one - it would be very easy for the demands of a professional doctorate to be 'down-sized' to accommodate the lives of the people who do them.

It worries me when I read on MN the generic questions around "I'm working full-time, can I fit in full-time MA or PhD study?" because this suggests to me that the potential student may not be taking the commitment to research as seriously as I think it should be taken.

But hey, I'm rude & snobbish because I'm concerned about standards.

It worries me when I read on MN the generic questions around "I'm working full-time, can I fit in full-time MA or PhD study?" because this suggests to me that the potential student may not be taking the commitment to research as seriously as I think it should be taken

It seems unlikely that the standards are going to be adversely affected by a mumsnet thread.

As everyone knows who has anything to do with PhDs, it is virtually impossible to fail if you have put in enough work. It's not very objective.

I've been doing a part-time Phd for whatseemslikeforeverandever....If I could go back in time, I would earnestly advise myself not to do it. As another poster said, it's not so much the work itself, as the constant guilt that you should be doing more work. There has been more despair than elation.

That said, if I do manage to stumble through and get to be a doctor, I might be puffing up my chest and announcing that it was the best thing ever, so who knows.

If word count correlates to quality in terms of in-depth development of your argument, continental PhDs, which frequently run to 250,000 words, are much better than UK ones.

Most full timers I know only spend half their week on their PhD with the other half on side projects so I don't think you need to commit more than 10-15 hours a week max part-time.

This must be very field and institution dependent. No way do my students get away with only working 10-15 hours per week - they work full-time hours and more in the last year when they are trying to finish on time. Those who want to carry on in academia work considerably more again, to ensure that their publication records are as strong as possible.

You certainly couldn't get away with 10-15 hours per week for any level degree in my subject (bachelors, masters or PhD).

I don't think the word count is the issue. A STEM PhD is generally short in word count because of all the lab work and data.

It is the time involved. How is it possible to complete a part time PhD in three and a half years?!

A full time BA would take three years and you would be in lectures and seminars at least 10 hours, plus independent study on top.

So how can something that takes less time than a BA be equivalent to a PhD?

I've looked up the EdD at Cardiff and it seems equivalent to a PhD in length of study and time required, so wonder if this issue is specific to the OU.

As everyone knows who has anything to do with PhDs, it is virtually impossible to fail if you have put in enough work.

Not really, though - many people are encouraged to transfer to MPhil, or simply give up, and people do fail.

The OP isn't asking 'can I skimp my way through this, please tell me how'. She's pointing out she doesn't need a PhD for work, but asking if it would be possible for her to do one because she wants to. I doubt she wants to skim through at a bare pass.

I wouldn't recommend doing it if you have small children. I don't know if you have or not - not read the whole thread. I regret the time consuming element (to studying an MA) when my kids were small. If I had that time again I wouldn't have done it, and just enjoyed the kids in my spare time.

My "normal" PhD took me 7 years. The last 3 years of that was part-time which I switched to when I got a full-time job. Those 3 years were also all purely writing up. It was a very long hard slog. I'd also decided that I didn't want to be an academic 4 years in but was more suited to "hands on" practise in the field.

I was still determined to finish it to the best of my ability - nearly did for me though!

Esornep - I said part-time. A full week is, say, 35 hours. Half that is 17.5 so it's perfectly reasonable to suggest a part time researcher could get by on 10-15 hours a week. I certainly do

Of course people fail PhDs

In my intake - at a RG university if anyone gives a fuck - we were 15. 2 or 3 people withdrew, 2 didn't pass the upgrade/ transfer component to make it into year 2, a few just sort of petered out and remained registered for ages but never really finished and one person actually did fail. As in, after her viva they said they would not award her a PhD.

Also agree hours put in = field dependent. I worked 6-7 day weeks during my ft PhD. Never met a student in my field who could pass during the maximum registration period by doing only 10 hrs per week, but hey ho!

Half that is 17.5 so it's perfectly reasonable to suggest a part time researcher could get by on 10-15 hours a week. I certainly do.

Again, this is field dependent. Full-time is not 35 hours in my field - 10 hour days are more typical. Part-time would be a minimum of 20 hours, and often more at intense periods of writing up. Part-time students also have a very high non-completion and failure rate in my field.