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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think some changes to the law on suspect's accused with sexual offences are needed.

224 replies

11122aa · 16/06/2016 10:36

I am a sexual assault survivor.
After the cliff Richard verdict am I wrong to think that people should not be named when investigated for sexual offences. Or even when charged. Or even naming the accuser as does happen in some countries abroad if there is a not guilty verdict?

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ToadsJustFellFromTheSky · 22/06/2016 16:19

If it is, they will have no one to blame but themselves.

Gosh.

ToadsJustFellFromTheSky · 22/06/2016 16:23

I seriously doubt that the law will be changed to allow rape suspects anonymity anyway.

How will a case be investigated if you can't name the suspect?

BillSykesDog · 22/06/2016 16:38

How will a case be investigated if you can't name the suspect?

It's actually already done in a lot of cases. Especially those which involve child suspects or victims. The recent case about Liam Fee being one, Bulger and Venables being another (weren't named until after conviction), the Damilola Taylor and Philip Lawrence cases too weren't named until after conviction.

I'm hopeful that identification won't stop. Ironically for the same reason that we won't move to guilty until proven innocent etc. Because no matter how much public opinion swings behind these things that pressure and interest groups push for, the justice system keeps a cool head and continues to look at things based on proof and evidence and the best course for justice rather than letting emotional arguments sway it.

ToadsJustFellFromTheSky · 22/06/2016 16:40

Because no matter how much public opinion swings behind these things that pressure and interest groups push for, the justice system keeps a cool head and continues to look at things based on proof and evidence and the best course for justice rather than letting emotional arguments sway it.

True.

11122aa · 22/06/2016 16:52

Having a look on twitter overwhelming support for a law change after Loose women's interview with Cliff. Ironic as most on twitter moan about gagging orders. Gonna be a an uphill battle to prevent identification laws changing to only named after conviction let along charge.

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ToadsJustFellFromTheSky · 22/06/2016 18:08

Will the law really be changed because of a bunch of opinions on twitter? Come on now...

Andro · 22/06/2016 18:24

ToadsJustFellFromTheSky - not because of comments on Twitter, but possibly because operation yewtree and it's companions have been managed so appallingly and so publicly.

While there have been some high profile criminals brought to justice for their actions, there have also been some high profile people treated horrendously for ultimately not good reason. Protracted time on bail, heavy handed management, the seriously dodgy deal with the BBC and some high profile acquittals/decisions not to prosecute have had an impact on public opinion - in respect of both policing and the justice system.

Rightly or wrongly (and I'm still struggling with my own stance) there are a lot of people not happy with the status quo.

BillSykesDog · 22/06/2016 20:17

Just as a little taste, here are some things said on MN when his house was raided:

As far as people complaining about all of this speculation. I'm afraid a lot of people are just glad it's come out at last. My DH works in the entertainment business and he's been told by many people that CR, Rolf Harris, Max Clifford and JS were sexual predators. It's not just one or two people gossiping, it's people changing work arrangements and plans to ensure young boys/girls/men and women weren't left on their own with these people.

When operation yewtree started there was always rumours of Rolf Harris and Cliff. If anyone is that interested, you can find all sorts of stories online about Cliff picking out young boys from Elm Guesthouse. I'm afraid to say it, but I think there will be a mound of dirt to come out. He knew his house would be raided which is why a statement was so quickly released whilst he was abroad. The media would not have been there, if the police weren't certain they would find something. It's been a long time coming...

^
Cliff and Cliff alone as been subject to the most consistent and persistent internet rumours since this all began IMO. So in this case I'm not surprised in the least, sadly. This may end up to be the biggest case yet.^

It does make me sad to think of who else is still out there, adored by many, but has behaved like a monster in secret...there must be more of them lurking in the shadows!!

I'm not surprised, in fact, when all these allegations started coming out, I said to OH, I bet Cliff is next. They wouldn't search for no reason, they have obviously discovered something suspicious enough, especially for him to be named in the press. I just hope all the victims are finally believed and supported whilst all guilty parties are sent to prison at long last!!

^Not surprised by this going by the rumours. I hope they are just rumours though.

I did hear from locals near where he lived that he had a live in young boyfriend 25 or so years ago (17/18 year old). That would have been back before the age of consent was lowered.^

So many rumours, I'd be surprised if they were wholly unfounded.

he's probably at his home in Bermuda, which totally coincidentally I'm sure, has no extradition agreement with the U.K.

I forsee a 'health issue' preventing him from flying home.

I think it will be suppressed until he is dead and then it'll all come out. There have been rumours for years, a CID friend said he's amazed that it's taken this long to come out.

All these 'rumours' and FOF and speculation about avoiding extradition and it being 'the worst case yet'. Unless people start to get a lot more responsible about being more even handed when allegations are made I think there is a real danger identification will be lost.

11122aa · 22/06/2016 22:22

And has anyone been convicted who can be proven to be because of publicity of naming a living suspect. I personally imagine so but proving it will be hard. Especially as none of the famous ones were (through new allegations which were proven as true did come up for Max Clifford and Rolf Harris( who wasn't named for months till the Sun( bound to support a law change) named him) I think)

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Felascloak · 22/06/2016 22:35

Well I know the guy who abused me personally wouldn't have gone to prison if the police hadn't been able to name him. Building a case of several people over decades who didn't know each other, telling the same story, was what caused him to plead guilty.
As I was anonymous people didn't know I was one of the people who had complained and I heard all kinds of victim blaming crap about girls being liars and him being unfairly targeted.
That case didn't get widespread media attention, as most rapes or sexual assaults don't, so its hard to answer your question if you don't want to take my word for it.

Felascloak · 22/06/2016 22:37

Oh by the way he entered not guilty pleas all the way until the first day of his trial, I think he'd been advised of sentencing guidelines but was hoping we wouldn't testify in court. The cunt.

PalmerViolet · 22/06/2016 22:47

Goodness, isn't OP gleeful about it all...

11122aa · 10/07/2016 10:23

He has Just announced he is suing the BBC and Police. Will probably succeed in both the legal action and changing the law for no naming till charge or even conviction ( what government is going to say no to the media and household names supporting it.) The public also support it when it comes to famous people ( yet when serial rapists get off because of it they people will rightly moan about the law they wanted changed).

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LumpySpacedPrincess · 10/07/2016 12:48

If the law is changed it will be an absolute travesty. Just another kick in the teeth for victims.

11122aa · 10/07/2016 13:37

I know it will be disgusting but it will have the popular support and politicians arguing against will be accused of being no smoke without fire people.

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11122aa · 10/07/2016 13:43

The Times are saying one of his aims of suing the Police and the BBC is to deter naming before charge.

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AristotlesTrousers · 10/07/2016 13:45

As a rape survivor who has never had the courage to report my abuser, this news makes me feel slightly sick, and quite angry.

ToadsJustFellFromTheSky · 10/07/2016 17:15

Do you think there is a chance the law will be changed?

11122aa · 10/07/2016 21:20

Id say a fairly good chance it will be changed. There is both media and public support for a change ( at least for celebrities) and not a strong strong opposition to any changes.

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ToadsJustFellFromTheSky · 10/07/2016 21:53

In that case the already piss poor conviction rate for rape will plummet.

I wonder if people actually understand that? Or do they just not care?

TVWife · 10/07/2016 22:46

People do care Toad but they also care about not having an innocent man's name dragged through the mud. If the only reason for naming suspects is to give more victims the courage to come forward maybe we should be addressing the reasons why they would not have done so otherwise.

The OP has been sexually abused remember!

Runningupthathill82 · 10/07/2016 22:48

There is no way the law is going to change to only allow the ID of suspects after conviction.

Legally, how would they do it? Amendment to the Defamation Act? It's not going to happen and I don't believe there's strong public support for it either.

ToadsJustFellFromTheSky · 10/07/2016 22:51

they also care about not having an innocent man's name dragged through the mud.

11122aa · 05/08/2016 18:44

Clare Foges in Tuesday Times was calling for a ban on naming before conviction Maura McGowan a High Court Judge backing it too.. I suspect a law will be introduced in parliament soonish then the fight against will begin. With the majority of the press backing the change it will be a tough tough fight.

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