Should we pay for dinner?

[TheMockTurtle]

So- I'm about to turn 30. And I'm pregnant. So we've decided to have a fancy Sunday pub lunch with friends. That way everyone else can drink as little or as much as they like. Obviously I can't, I'll be there for the slap up feed! My friends are all around the same age.

It's a nice bar/restaurant. I imagine we'll have starters and a main course and we will provide a nice birthday cake for dessert.

There could potentially be about 15 of us. My question is... Should we pay? I'm a bit concerned about it as it would cost us a lot to cover everyone's meals (and maybe drinks?) We have done the inviting, so my husband thinks we might be responsible for paying. I've been to 30th birthdays, and I go expecting to pay for my own meal and drinks and that's what has happened, but my husband thinks we will have to cover the cost.

What do you think? If you were invited to lunch, would you expect it to be paid for?

[VioletBam]

I always expect to pay. There was a time, when it was usual to pay for guests. Not nowadays.

[Oysterbabe]

I would definitely expect to pay for myself.

[IamtheDevilsAvocado]

I think it depends on wording and what it usual in your social group....

The older members of my family insist on paying for everyone... They believe it's their invite, therefore they pay...

Amongst my generation, generally speaking everyone pays for themselves... Although it does get a bit difficult when there is massive differential in disposable income... Sometimes I've paid for everyone, close pals who were still students, as I didn't want them to feel awkward about celebrating!

[TheMockTurtle]

Aw, my poor husband no longer wants to read responses as he says it's getting a little anxiety inducing! However, I think the majority of the responses have been reassuring. My question for those who think we should pay... A friend invites you and a large bunch out and then you are expected to pay. Do you go away and have a good bitch to say, your sister, and say "it was her birthday, and she invited us all out, and then wouldn't pick up the bill!" I'm guessing your sister might ask how much it came to. It could very well run in to hundreds!

Also, my husbands text has been analysed to death. I actually don't even know exactly what he said. The point of that was to just say it was a casual text, not a formal invite. He said this morning he thinks he did write something along the lines of 'can you join us' which seems to be okay way to word it!

But anyway, these people are friends. We all work. If they get peeved with me I don't think we should worry too much. Just gonna go and enjoy it. We'll cover some wine and the cake.

[Queenbean]

I really don't think that people fall out over money in real life anywhere near as much as they do on mumsnet.

You'll be fine op, have a lovely birthday :)

[Sixweekstowait]

I agree with a pp who said that a real issue is how the bill is split.What normally happens with your group of friends? Is everyone happy to split equally irrespective of what they ate? Ive only been to one birthday celebration at a restaurant where we had to pay for ourselves - but the 'hosts' ( who were younger than us) made it clear on the invite that they would provide the fizz for pre dinner drinks - and they chose a decent restaurant so the food was good. I always pay if I invite for a celebration - I put on the invite something like. 'We'd love you to join us, as our guests to celebrate....' It's really all about the culture of the group you are in - what people usually do and would expect but I do agree that making it clear is really important.

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

It's a minefield only because the activity seems to have evolved. Arranging to go out with friends is NOT the same as issuing an invite to friends. It just isn't. If you invite, you pay. There's no confusion whatsoever.

Don't do it, stop putting yourself in a faux-position of 'mein host' if you're not actually going to host. It's fine to suggest to friends that you could meet up for dinner, whatever, but then it's a consensus as to where you go, you don't get to choose the venue because it's not your 'party'.

What you're doing is conflating the issue; because it's your birthday, you want people to come and celebrate that with you. All fine. You say, "It's my birthday and I'd really like to get together with you all to celebrate. Where can we we go?". You can add, "Obviously not too expensive for everyone... just somewhere". If you really want to be crystal clear.

Because you're now providing wine/cake whatever, it now looks like you're doing 'half a job'. You're doing what happens at weddings - bar the paying for the meal. Sorry, but that's what it looks like.

People do perhaps like to assume roles that they wouldn't normally take and this is where the unease about who is paying comes in. If you are hosting, then you organise the event and issue invitations - and you pay for it. If you are not playing host then you don't assume the role - you discuss with your friends where you would all like to go and you take the same role as they have - a friend wanting to meet up.

Perhaps amongst your friends there will be no expectation but... you did post this thread so you can't be all that sure? hesterton's text suggestion up the thread was really good and would get you out of this stickiness neatly.

This isn't about class, it's about manners and etiquette. I know some people don't rate etiquette much now but it's there for a reason; to prevent mixed messages, confusion and sleepless nights.

[ValerieSweet]

Honestly, unless your friends are total nobs, it's fine. Who goes out without their wallet? Who orders food then expresses surprise to the host or anyone else they have to pay for it? You'd have to be really shameless.

I do think 'would you like to come' suggests it's an event you're putting on, and therefore might be paying for (I know there's a danger of over-analysing, but even in a brief, casual invite the words do create a certain impression: still, maybe he didn't even use this phrase)... but it's hardly conclusive. It would be rude of your guests to assume you're footing the bill.

I've been to a few large meals where someone picked up the tab, but it's either been very clear in advance (birthdays, engagement or anniversary dinners, colleague leaving meals where senior staff club together and fund us all), or done with great discretion (told 'it's been taken care of' when you try to pay, which is kind but also mortifying if you've stuffed yourself).

If there's any doubt who's paying, all decent guests will have their money out as soon as the bill appears, and even if you then said 'no, it's on me' you'd probably have a fight on your hands. That's the English way, isn't it? Always a bit uncomfortable with public largesse, unless you come from the kind of loaded background where people pick up epic tabs without blinking (while you yawn and murmur yah, thanks, pushing aside your unfinished caviar).

[TheMockTurtle]

Nah, guys. I don't think we're rude people, and I find it hard to believe people could be so offended that we have issued an invitation to join us for a meal but not pay for it. The more I think about it, the more I think we ought not to worry. I think it is an interesting topic with regards to a generational thing.
I agree with you Valerie Sweet. My friends aren't knobs. There is no need for them to even buy my meal/drinks. Their good company will be more than enough!

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

Why did you post the thread then OP? You say in your first post that:
My question is... Should we pay? I'm a bit concerned about it as it would cost us a lot to cover everyone's meals (and maybe drinks?) We have done the inviting, so my husband thinks we might be responsible for paying.

Your husband was correct, you aren't.

It's nothing to do with being a 'generational thing' (and that is really quite dismissive of you), it's about doing the 'right' thing in whatever set of circumstances - coined by the term etiquette. It's supposed to be helpful so that everybody knows the right thing to do in any given situation.

[wooflesgoestotown]

I think you're fine to assume everyone pays for themselves. Unless you're known to be super rich and of a generous disposition it's hard to see how anyone would assume a 30 yearold could easily pay for everyone's meal.

[Oysterbabe]

I think the majority would disagree with you Witch.

I've been invited to countless birthday meals in restaurants, always paid my own way and never expected anything different.

[fastdaytears]

I don't agree that it's generational at all. Different groups of friends might have different practices but it's not an age thing

[TheMockTurtle]

I posted the thread for some reassurance, and i feel reassured. The more I have read, the more I feel better about the situation. And I thank everyone for their opinions! I do disagree with you LyingWitch, I guess it makes me feel that it's not as big a deal as you make out. I definitely don't need to lose sleep.

I don't think I'm going to have 15 disgruntled guests. I know these people and like them!

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

I can see that, Oysterbabe. I've always done the 'you invite, you pay' thing as that's how it's always been in my family. Very different if you say, "Shall we all meet up somewhere and have dinner?".

Another point is that you don't feign hosting; a 30-year old possibly wouldn't want to pay for everybody's dinner but then don't 'invite'. If it were 5 or 6 people, she might want to perhaps, and the invitation would have been the same.

That is the point I'm making.

It's such a complex scenario with twists and turns and even OP and her husband didn't think the same on the issue. We have countless threads here about paying and bill-splitting and 'inviting' - and that's because etiquette rules have gone out of the window with everybody wanting to be (as my husband would crudely put it) "Billy Big Balls". I don't think that was OP's intention but being a faux-host is pretentious.

If you're confident that your group of friends would never think/feel this way then you're laughing... and you wouldn't need to post a thread to ask, would you?

[TheMockTurtle]

Also, I don't think providing wine and cake is doing a 'half job'. I've been to many birthday parties, and a few 30ths, and I don't recall a cake being provided, or even wine on the table. Sometimes at weddings there are a couple of bottles of plonk on the table, which is always nice.

[fastdaytears]

You've been to a wedding with no wine on the table?
That's worthy of a whole other thread!

[soupey1]

I think it depends on your group. If we were invited to join someone for lunch we would be expecting them to pay - they have invited us. If someone suggested we meet up then we would expect to pay for ourselves. I think you need to make it clear to your friends if there is any doubt - if we went to a meal we had been invited to at a venue/date /time chosen solely by the host we would not be impressed to suddenly be asked to fund it.
Next week is my birthday we have invited family to join us at an Indian restaurant we all like - DH and I will be paying.

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

MockTurtle, I don't mind you disagreeing with me at all.

We all have our own set of references to go by and in my family, it's different - but exact - everybody knows exactly what's what. I like that rigidity because there are no surprises.

You might not have had doubts, but your husband did... that would give me sleepless nights (not about you and your husband), in the same scenario IF I couldn't afford it or IF my friends weren't as well-versed on what to expect as yours are.

Forget it all and concentrate on your nice night out. :)

[AppleSetsSail]

Strictly speaking, I think if you invite people to a restaurant to celebrate your birthday - you should pay.

There's (obviously) enough ambiguity surrounding these arrangements that no nice, reasonably person should be surprised at paying themselves.

If I were in your shoes, I'd pay. If I were in your guest's shoes, I'd certainly attempt to pay.

[suesue89]

Call me crazy ladies, but I don't think you should pay for anything even your meal. On my friends birthdays we split the money between us all including the birthday persons meal too. I just think it's your birthday and it should be a little treat your friends should do. I've never heard of paying for your own birthday meal let alone others.x

[Magstermay]

Definitely a generational thing I think, I'd always assume I was paying for myself, my parents assume they'll be paid for and are quite horrified when they're not (they always pay if they invite people out for an occasion).

[AppleSetsSail]

When I was a young lady and friends organised something for my birthday - no, I didn't pay. Now that I'm old and my husband organises my birthday, we pay.