May emigrate but where to?

[Capricorn76]

DH and I were talking about what we would do in the event of a Brexit and possible social and economic decline. DH would be keen to leave if things went bad and whilst I'm not as keen as him I'd go.

There are a few reasons why we are disillusioned with UK right now and one of them is that we are become increasingly worried by the nationalism and openly xenophobic atmosphere mainly driven by the media and some public figures but seeping into normal life. It's becoming quite toxic and negative here. We are a mixed race family with me being mixed race, him white and a mixed raced DD. We fear that all the anger directed at Eastern Europeans may be directed towards visible minorities.

This is because if a Brexit happens and all the EE's leave but the economy goes to shit, people will be looking at new scapegoats for the UK's failings. In England we tend to view everything we do as superior and thus we are never at fault it must always be an 'outsiders' fault. The anger won't go towards the leaders who have made poor decisions or the elites who have sucked up the countries wealth or technology which has replaced jobs. They'll blame the poor African toilet cleaner or Asian shop keeper or someone like me. Just like the Polish plumbers have been blamed.

Anyway enough rambling what I want to know is where in the world could we go if things fall apart? We would want to stay in a wealthy country as we are educated and earn good money. We would want to go somewhere with well known companies to work for that would further our careers, a country with good schools etc. We recently visited the Caribbean and all races seemed to get on well there, none of us felt uncomfortable but they don't have any industry other than tourism so career wise it's a no.

Many other European countries have even worse problems. America with Trump, all of his supporters and lax gun laws is a no although my DB said Vermont is fantastic and would suit my family. Canada is almost impossible to get a visa for as we don't do essential jobs.

Where could a small mixed race family of educated, high earners go where we would feel comfortable or even welcome if the U.K goes tits up? And to be honest as I said before it's not even the tits up thing we're becoming worried by the atmosphere and public discourse.

The trouble is we can't tell you to move to xyz country and it's so wonderful as you most likely wouldn't get a visa.!

You need to look at which countries will accept you/need you and decide if those countries are better or worse than England.

I've lived in 8 countries now and each and everyone has good and bad points. We as a mixed race family would have no idea where to eventually settle as none stand head and shoulders above all others.

We don't know what effects Brexit may cause yet, fine to think about but it's a case of wait and see. And can you live happily in the new environment.

To those posters saying America, firstly, good luck getting a visa! The racism here is one of the main reasons we want to move back to the UK. I've lived all over the world and this is the most racist, segregated society I've ever had the misfortune to live in. If you're white and wealthy, you're fine, granted. But in terms of the xenophobia and so on you're talking about, OP, you'd just be jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire IMO.

I love the irony from those who would consider emigrating if Remain win because they don't like immigrants. Hilarious.

It really is. They don't like immigrants, so they become immigrants themselves?
Wouldn't that mean they'd have to hate themselves?

Of course it doesn't, but apparently there are even people who don't like people from Eastern Europe and emigrate to Eastern Europe.

Agree with comments about America.

There is a parable about how you'll find the people in the new place the same as you found them in the old place, and why that is so....

New Zealand is a lovely place. But they've got racial issues too. Sweden - couldn't be doing with that much winter darkness, and that also brings social problems.

And so on.

Maybe Ireland?

EU countries will be closed off in all likelihood. There will probably be a cut-off but I suspect that will be the date of the referendum, not the date we leave the EU. So you'd need a work permit/residence permit etc. But Ireland is likely to be a special case, at least for a while.

US - need a green card unless you can get employer sponsorship
Canada - a bit easier to get in I think but you'd still need to be in a job they want
Australia and NZ - not easy to get in and the above applies

Norway/Iceland/Switzerland maybe possibles, not being in the EU.

Alderney - no residence limits

Isle of Man

Guernsey/Jersey if you are very rich or can get employer sponsorship

Malta/Cyprus - EU but also Commonwealth so might also be special cases

Am I right in saying both you and DH are British? I find it sad that neither of you feel a loyalty to GB and want to make it a better place. Obviously, I'm sorry if you've suffered as a result of bigotry, that's wrong, and you shouldn't have to live with that.
Maybe a move in Britain would be a solution? There are lots of lovely tolerant places outside London.
My DH and his brother came to UK as children, but despite their swarthy appearance and weird foreign names have been extremely successful (by anyone's measure) and accepted, both are very, very happy here, proud to be British. (One wants brexit, one doesn't, neither going elsewhere whichever way the vote goes)

Don't forget to factor in all the other things into your decision like having to pay for healthcare and education. No employment laws or consumer rights, being banned from purchasing property in your destination as a foreigner etc. Just a few of the issues we have faced. Leaving the UK is not a decision to be taken lightly. We thought it was all a big laugh when we left. Trust me, it isn't. The U.K. is the best place to be IMHO, Brexit or not!

I've lived in several different countries and I think the uk (while not perfect) is the most tolerant of all the places I've lived.
There is no perfect utopia. There are country that get close - Canada is pretty good, but even places that are held up as beacons are not always as good as you'd think. I live in Sweden and while it has many good points, it also drives me crazy on an almost daily basis

The U.K. Is a very tolerant place to live.

Zzzzz- but pioneering spirit is not the reason they want to jump ship, their reasons are entirely selfish -"we're not going to go down with any titanic"

zzzzz - what a ridiculous statement
that was then this is now
I am heartened that so many other posters agree that the UK is a tolerant society. OP I suggest you visit and stay in parts outside the London/SE area.

I take it you've never lived anywhere else except the UK? I have. And I can tell you lots of places are far more insular and xenophobic than we are.

Second vote for Scotland. As we don't have the "superior "views of others and get blamed for everything as well.
In addition we are a tolerant society with no major race issues which all stems from our history of being forced out of our own country and being immigrants in others.

Agree with Scotland- I lived in Edinburgh before I moved here. I miss it terribly

I'm a white non-EU immigrant. I would in the past have agreed with those who describe the UK as one of the more generous, welcoming and tolerant in the world.

However at the moment it feels like it's on a downward slide, and it's hard to know how much is a temporary blip caused by the referendum and how much is actually representative of how people have felt for a long time and now feel more able to express it - ie this is the new normal.

As immigrants go I'm extremely privileged, especially as many people don't realise I'm an immigrant. But even for me it's becoming more uncomfortable - particularly the way some people feel able to talk about my (half-British) kids.

I am an Eastern European immigrant. I lived in the UK since I was 17, and I am 39 now.

Yeah, UK has its problems, and there are certain things that scare me a bit, not least the idea of Brexit.

But I am under absolutely no illusion that the grass is greener anywhere else, literally and metaphorically. There are very good reasons why I.have fallen in love with this country and adopted it as my own, and I assure.you that weather.isn't one of them.

Brexit ,whether it would turn out to be good or bad for the country as a whole, would certainly make life more difficult for me, but, you know, good luck getting rid of me.

There is really only one scenario in which I would consider leaving, but I got too much faith in the basic decency of British people to ever seriously fear that happening.

My young black colleague was talking about the racism she experienced in a small town in California (university town so educated people). We're talking about a couple of years ago.

She was shocked at the level she experienced and it opened her eyes to how tolerant the UK (well most of it) is.

I live in the US and we are raising our kids in a great town which is very tolerant of you have money. My kids are being well educated because we pay upwards of $20k a year in property taxes on a home that cost more than $1 million.

If you are poor you are out of luck on living in our town unless you are connected and work in an essential public service (teacher, medical worker, police or firefighter).

Please go live elsewhere because only then will you appreciate what you have in the UK.