May emigrate but where to?

[Capricorn76]

DH and I were talking about what we would do in the event of a Brexit and possible social and economic decline. DH would be keen to leave if things went bad and whilst I'm not as keen as him I'd go.

There are a few reasons why we are disillusioned with UK right now and one of them is that we are become increasingly worried by the nationalism and openly xenophobic atmosphere mainly driven by the media and some public figures but seeping into normal life. It's becoming quite toxic and negative here. We are a mixed race family with me being mixed race, him white and a mixed raced DD. We fear that all the anger directed at Eastern Europeans may be directed towards visible minorities.

This is because if a Brexit happens and all the EE's leave but the economy goes to shit, people will be looking at new scapegoats for the UK's failings. In England we tend to view everything we do as superior and thus we are never at fault it must always be an 'outsiders' fault. The anger won't go towards the leaders who have made poor decisions or the elites who have sucked up the countries wealth or technology which has replaced jobs. They'll blame the poor African toilet cleaner or Asian shop keeper or someone like me. Just like the Polish plumbers have been blamed.

Anyway enough rambling what I want to know is where in the world could we go if things fall apart? We would want to stay in a wealthy country as we are educated and earn good money. We would want to go somewhere with well known companies to work for that would further our careers, a country with good schools etc. We recently visited the Caribbean and all races seemed to get on well there, none of us felt uncomfortable but they don't have any industry other than tourism so career wise it's a no.

Many other European countries have even worse problems. America with Trump, all of his supporters and lax gun laws is a no although my DB said Vermont is fantastic and would suit my family. Canada is almost impossible to get a visa for as we don't do essential jobs.

Where could a small mixed race family of educated, high earners go where we would feel comfortable or even welcome if the U.K goes tits up? And to be honest as I said before it's not even the tits up thing we're becoming worried by the atmosphere and public discourse.

For me - the Netherlands, Sweden, New Zealand would be top of the list.

Though Cayman would be nice. Need to get into banking though.

Like Luna says you can't just live anywhere you want so I would start by seeing where you could emigrate to.

I'd avoid Australia given your criteria.

I don't think you are being ridiculous. We had a similar discussion. We settled on Ireland. Did you know that despite N. Ireland being pay off the UK, they can't close the border between republic and north. The solution they have come up with is full customs border for any one crossing from mainland UK to N. Ireland. Also my kids and husband have passports from his country(part of Europe), but I have British passport and cant get one of his. So this would mean separate queues at passport control with them waiting potentially for a long time for me.
We are all western European so not obviously 'mixed race', so it's just that if the country goes Brexit, we don't want to stay

OP I would wait to see what happens. If you're a mixed race Brit I really don't see why you would face increased racism in the future, merely as a result of Brexit. This country, for all its faults, is pretty tolerant IME and I think if you've lived here happily all this time that won't change.

Of course, you may wish to leave for economic reasons if Britain leaves the EU, but getting a work permit for another country can be pretty hard unless you and/or your DH have specific skills that are in demand elsewhere.

Don't forget too that there is racism and intolerance in Canada, Australia, the US, etc as well. Just because you don't know those countries well you shouldn't assume that all will be well if you can just get out of the UK. As for Europe, many countries are much whiter than the UK (someone up-thread mentioned Iceland - a tiny country of just 330,000 people and predominantly white), and I've seen how racist people are in e.g. Italy.

If you're honestly thinking of emigrating I would start by taking a holiday to that place and see how you might fit in. The grass is most certainly not always greener elsewhere (and I say that as someone who has lived and worked in five different countries).

I despair at the mindset of all you who are talking of 'bailing out' when you don't know what will happen and have so little faith in the good sense and generosity of the British people. - so leave if you feel you have no alternative but you will be treated as an 'immigrant' wherever you manage to go and you may not like that after all

You need to find out which countries would allow you to immigrate into it.

Then take it from there.

juneau - I agree with all you have said
I have already commented re my experience of Canada when I lived there with a mixed race child - and I imagine lots of countries are the same to varying degrees as in the UK.

if the country goes 'remain' I don't want to stay either but I will not abandon my country so easily.

I live in the Netherlands and it's honestly great. I'm also mixed race, DH is white and we have a DD. There is a slight language barrier but nearly everyone speaks English. It's a wealthy country so well-paid jobs, and the strong employment laws mean fantastic work/life balance - it is very common for people to work part-time. Depending on where you live, it might not seem very mixed but no-one bats an eyelid at skin colour or whatever.

Having said all that, I almost want to beg you to stay in the UK. If all the good people leave, what will be left? Hypocritical of me, I know In my defence, DH (and by extension, DD) is Dutch so I couldn't really go home if I wanted to!

I never said all Brexiters are racist. A close friend of mine is a Brexiter and is married to a black man. However, the general tone of the campaign leaves a sour taste.

I live in London in a liberal area so we are quite insulated at present but I do read and watch the news plus the comments and travel around the country and there had been an obvious negative change. I visited an English/Welsh border town during the general election and went to the local pub where nearly everyone supported UKIP. The conversations we had with the locals were rather 'interesting'....the fear of immigration was high despite the village having no immigrants as far as I could tell.

Maybe it's just the constant drip drip of negativity (plus watching the animals fighting over football) getting us down? We are normally very optimistic people but the UK feels like it's on the brink of a steep decline, it doesn't feel like a country looking forwards and upwards and we worry about what would happen next.

We don't have ties to other countries and I'm aware that you can't just rock up to a country and ask to live there. Like I said this was a pub conversation so I thought I'd ask where else there was?

We haven't put the house up for sale and we haven't pulled DD out of school. We haven't done anything serious about it yet but it's not unreasonable to have a potential Plan B. Previous societies have started off with the slow drip drip of negativity and then all of a sudden there was major social unrest.

DP and I are both foreign, and we talk about moving to the Netherlands if voters here go for brexit.

In defence of Australia I do have Aussie friends and went there for a couple of months. I did not witness any more racism than I've seen in the UK. When people are racist there it's more overt (especially making jokes about the native people) and the U.K more covert but the affects are still bad. I had a great time it's just so far away!

But I'd Britain leave the EU surely the OP would lose the freedom of movement to work in the Netherlands. Would she have to apply for a visa.

I'm in Ireland and have travelled quite a lot around the world. Nowhere is perfect but I think the UK is one of the more accepting places in the world and will remain so.

I myself would like to have some controls on immigration - like a points system - but that doesn't mean I think any less of the Eastern Europeans etc who have come to our country. We are all just humans trying our best to survive. So people who talk about having controls on immigration are not necessarily racist.

You are being absurd. And seriously naive if you think other countries are less xenophobic than the UK.

Mostly, it's an urban v provincial thing, although not exclusively.

Anyway, I don't think you're serious, I think you're trying to make a point.

BYE then!

I know Dubai has a bad reputation in particular in Mumsnet.

However it is great place to bring up a family. Mixed race couples here are plentiful and for families with young children it is great.

Don't get me wrong, it is not without it faults. Human rights in particular of the lower class migrant workers need to improve. But, as an expat you can help in lots of small ways to contribute to this and as awful as this sounds/is for a lot of these workers their life here is better then in their home country.

Now you can never become an Emirati so your stay here would be temporary, but it will give you a break from all that is going on in Europe and hopefully things will have changed for the positive by the time you are ready to leave.

You want to move somewhere less racist than the UK? Good luck with that. Why do you think that Britain is the country that is the most attractive to immigrants? The benefits thing is a myth. It is because, despite our faults, we are still one of the most tolerant multicultural societies in the world. Leaving Europe wouldn't change that.

Why are some people so annoyed about a random stranger discussing their options? It doesn't negatively affect anyone else and isn't a judgement on what you want to do. DH are just of the mind that if it all went to shit we'd leave, we're not going down with any Titanic! We have one life and have travelled so don't feel we have to stay in one place forever just because we were born here. We don't hate the UK we just don't like the tone and wonder where it may lead.

I forgot to say that even if we did stay we have bought some cryptocurreny just in case sterling falls.

This country is one of the most tolerant enlightened in Europe if not in the world.

I used to think so. Sadly, I'm not so sure any more.

I don't think the OP is unreasonable to be concerned about the tone and rhetoric of the referendum debate, and to wonder how that might impact on her family. I'm shocked at a lot of what I've heard tbh. Farage seems to have made racism and xenophobia acceptable.

As for being an immigrant if we choose to leave the UK, I've done it before when I lived abroad and I'll do it again if we have to. I don't buy this idea that the UK is soft on immigrants while everyone else takes an incredibly tough stance. Not my experience at all - on the contrary, I was welcomed with open arms in both of the countries where I lived.

We have lived all over the globe and I can safely say that the UK is THE most tolerant country out there, BAR NONE. What fat owl said about Asia is true, it's where we are currently posted and the racism and sexism is unbelievable. You are being VVU. Trust me on that. If anything we are more likely to move back after Brexit than leave.

I wonder where the op can actually go? She may not want to announce her nationality but there aren't any places that you can move to without a job or lots of cash.

Except the EU at the moment - where speaking the relevant language would be almost essential, and many of the countries are far worse off than us.

Mexico100% followed by Canada and by the way OP you are not the only one with those (valid) reasons to emigrate.
There are quite a few people who are thinking the same including yours faithfully.

Britain used to be good (or so I thought). Now I feel like Jim Crow is calling the shots and it's getting worse.

I have relatives who left Mexico to get away from attitudes the OP is trying to avoid.

I have relatives and friends who live there for the lifestyle OP is looking for.