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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

May emigrate but where to?

97 replies

Capricorn76 · 12/06/2016 09:05

DH and I were talking about what we would do in the event of a Brexit and possible social and economic decline. DH would be keen to leave if things went bad and whilst I'm not as keen as him I'd go.

There are a few reasons why we are disillusioned with UK right now and one of them is that we are become increasingly worried by the nationalism and openly xenophobic atmosphere mainly driven by the media and some public figures but seeping into normal life. It's becoming quite toxic and negative here. We are a mixed race family with me being mixed race, him white and a mixed raced DD. We fear that all the anger directed at Eastern Europeans may be directed towards visible minorities.

This is because if a Brexit happens and all the EE's leave but the economy goes to shit, people will be looking at new scapegoats for the UK's failings. In England we tend to view everything we do as superior and thus we are never at fault it must always be an 'outsiders' fault. The anger won't go towards the leaders who have made poor decisions or the elites who have sucked up the countries wealth or technology which has replaced jobs. They'll blame the poor African toilet cleaner or Asian shop keeper or someone like me. Just like the Polish plumbers have been blamed.

Anyway enough rambling what I want to know is where in the world could we go if things fall apart? We would want to stay in a wealthy country as we are educated and earn good money. We would want to go somewhere with well known companies to work for that would further our careers, a country with good schools etc. We recently visited the Caribbean and all races seemed to get on well there, none of us felt uncomfortable but they don't have any industry other than tourism so career wise it's a no.

Many other European countries have even worse problems. America with Trump, all of his supporters and lax gun laws is a no although my DB said Vermont is fantastic and would suit my family. Canada is almost impossible to get a visa for as we don't do essential jobs.

Where could a small mixed race family of educated, high earners go where we would feel comfortable or even welcome if the U.K goes tits up? And to be honest as I said before it's not even the tits up thing we're becoming worried by the atmosphere and public discourse.

OP posts:
Musicinthe00ssucks · 12/06/2016 14:05

I think you are being absolutely ridiculous. You live in London one of the most tolerant and racially diverse areas in the whole world. We have just elected a Muslim Mayor FFS so I'm not sure where you are getting your idea of racial intolerance from.

If you wish to move to a more racially diverse and less xenophobic area then I wish you good luck with finding one.

VestalVirgin · 12/06/2016 14:10

Except the EU at the moment - where speaking the relevant language would be almost essential, and many of the countries are far worse off than us.

I think it would be easy to go to Germany. Almost everyone speaks English here, so as long as OP speaks BBC English and not some dialect, that shouldn't be so much of a problem.

Not sure whether the racism problem is any better here, though.

SouperSal · 12/06/2016 14:42

I despair at the mindset of all you who are talking of 'bailing out' when you don't know what will happen and have so little faith in the good sense and generosity of the British people

Not just about brexit for us. Attitudes to schooling, mental health, environment, young children in public, shifting of pension age etc all play a part of our disillusionment in the UK. And much isn't directly controlled by Westminster for us. If I had to live over the bridge I'd have been gone after the last GE.

specialsubject · 12/06/2016 14:55

What bridge?

UK is overcrowded so all those who want to leave - please do. Good luck in your new countries but remember that problems travel with you.

SquinkiesRule · 12/06/2016 14:58

Threads like this make me laugh. I remember when I lived in the US every election year, they would start. If so and so wins I'm moving to Canada, or Europe or wherever, it'll be so bad, they are killing our country etc etc. None ever went anywhere. I doubt Canada or anywhere else would want them, they wouldn't meet criteria for a visa.

SquinkiesRule · 12/06/2016 14:58

Oh I forgot the standard answer to people saying they were going was.
Don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out.

exLtEveDallas · 12/06/2016 15:07

Hmm, DH and I have been talking about this. The plan has always been to retire overseas, but we've actually started talking seriously about going earlier - def in the next 10 years, and possibly much sooner.

As soldiers we lived in Cyprus and loved it but there was definate racism/xenophobic feeling there between the Greek and Turkish Cypriots. DH is 'Mediterranean' looking and was asked on a number of occasions (especially when he had a tan!) whether he was 'Northern' - there was often visible relief when he said "No, Welsh"

We are currently looking at the Canaries (simply because we love them) and DH has been investigating employment with friends in Croatia (which is surprisingly tolerant when you consider the history)

grannytomine · 12/06/2016 15:12

Another mixed race family with the same worries. If it came to it we would go to Canada, husband and kids have dual nationality so no problem for them. Hope I might get in as a plus one.

SavoyCabbage · 12/06/2016 15:16

In defence of Australia I do have Aussie friends and went there for a couple of months. I did not witness any more racism than I've seen in the UK. When people are racist there it's more overt (especially making jokes about the native people) and the U.K more covert but the affects are still bad. I had a great time it's just so far away!

Well I lived there with my mixed race family for seven years in Melbourne and two in Sydney and was astonished at the casual racism.

zzzzz · 12/06/2016 15:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SouperSal · 12/06/2016 16:37

what bridge?

Severn.

Babyroobs · 12/06/2016 16:45

If things got bad here, we would try to go back to new Zealand. We lived there for 45 ears back in the nineties. My 2 eldest dd's were born there. I'm not sure we would easily be able to update our residents visas but i would give it my best shot. Biggest obstacles would be leaving elderly df behind and a dilemma about what to do with our beloved dog !

ExtremelyConfidential · 12/06/2016 16:50

Netherlands (lived there for years...fantastic place)
Panama (friendly nations visa programme; if you have a little cash and entrepreneurial spirit you will be made very welcome)

Your post made me very sad, OP. I was in London last week for the first time in many months and I really understand where you're coming from. Good luck to you.

zoobaby · 12/06/2016 16:56

Was going to suggest you move to London until I got to the part where you say you're already there. Blimey. If London isn't diverse enough for you, I struggle to think of a place that will be. You say you don't want to be a visible minority, so maybe move to a neighbourhood where you fit the predominant colour/ethnicity and allow your DH to be the odd one out. There are plenty of areas like that all around the capital.

originalmavis · 12/06/2016 17:01

Where we are (London) I'm the local Brit cocontingent. You don't get more diverse than where we are.

TortoiseSmile · 12/06/2016 17:40

OP, honestly your ignorance and simmering hatred of ordinary people's concerns about their culture, housing and livelihood is what shines most vividly through your post. Have a good look in the mirror, glass houses and all that.

specialsubject · 12/06/2016 19:43

Severn bridge person - not clear if you hate England or hate Wales. I have lived in both and don't recognise either from your description. Anyway, you know where the exit is - life is too short to live somewhere you don't like.

Me, I like in no particular order :democracy (never perfect but better than the alternative) , drinkable water, decent safety standards, free speech, benign climate, no insect borne diseases , seasons, intelligent media available, not being left to die untreated after an accident if you have no money, gun control, racism and sexism being outlawed and many other things .

Lots we could do better - but that's reality anywhere.

manicinsomniac · 12/06/2016 19:53

Brazil.

Massive proportion of mixed race individuals and the most incredible, friendly, generous and welcoming people. Vast and beautiful country. Gorgeous kids. Ability to speak English hugely valued.

Although it having economic problems now, I believe. And there's a lot of almost subconscious racism. And a terrible gap between rich and poor.

But nowhere's perfect.

annandale · 12/06/2016 20:02

From what you say I would look seriously at Sweden, though there is a strong far right element in politics as I understand it.

I'm not going anywhere but totally support people's right to try to emigrate or immigrate where they want to.

EastMidsMummy · 12/06/2016 20:54

If things got bad here, we would try to go back to new Zealand. We lived there for 45 years back in the nineties.

Or it just felt like it...

NameChanger22 · 12/06/2016 21:19

I have to agree with you, the UK is becoming a nastier place to be. I really hope we stay in Europe, I can't see how leaving would make life here better in any way. I'm also fearful about where we are headed if we leave Europe and all the nice people start to go.

I've lived in America, Israel and Hong Kong. All three places were very welcoming to me and I made great friends in all of them. Obviously, they all have their faults, like anywhere. It is far easier to live and work where you are born. I admire anyone that moves to another country and manages to make a success of their life there.

Newyearnewbrain · 12/06/2016 21:27

Geneva. Incredible mix of people. Still in Europe but outside the EU. Very good standard of education and job opportunities.

I'm biased but I love it here. I'm an "ordinary" Brit, no background as an expat or diplomat but have mixed with people from all walks of life and backgrounds.
Like the rest of Europe there is a feeling that the extreme right are lurking but in this city, currently, I don't see an issue. With all the international organisations, its very diversity is essential to creating a thriving city.

mollie123 · 12/06/2016 21:29

I really hope we stay in Europe, I can't see how leaving would make life here better in any way. I'm also fearful about where we are headed if we leave Europe and all the nice people start to go
I cannot see how staying in the EU will make life here any better Shock
So all the 'nice' people will go because they are all remain voters and therefore so much nicer than those who wish to 'leave' !
A bit of a generalisation there.
BTW Canada has its problems as well - I know I have lived there.

NameChanger22 · 12/06/2016 21:38

Mollie - it probably is a generalisation because I haven't met every person voting in the referendum. But so far, every person I know who is voting leave has a horrible snarl on their face.

lostincumbria · 12/06/2016 21:46

I love the irony from those who would consider emigrating if Remain win because they don't like immigrants. Hilarious.