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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU or are CAMHS really REALLY SHIT

239 replies

Anonquestion · 11/06/2016 08:31

I feel like I have been trapped in some sort of nightmare with them. My daughter is now 14 yrs old and was first seen by them 3 years ago when her behaviour started to severely deterioarate with the move to secondary school. We first did brief solution focused therapy with her, 6 sessions over about 5 months due to staff being off sick, on AL etc. It made absolutely no difference, if anything it made herore anxious. This was followed by 'family therapy', which she hated; a lot of pressure was put on us to have it filmed for staff training which made things worse. This was with another 2 members of staff, one was an ex-pschiatric nurse the other had a degree in psychology. We were then told there was nothing more they could do but send us on a parenting course run by the early intervention service, this was absolutely shite, really obvious stuff like 'don't hit your children', 'try not to lose your temper', stuff which we already knew. Me and my husband feel very strongly that our daughter's got ASD and she is now being seen by someone else (another ex psychiatric nurse) who is trying to get her seen by a doctor for a diagnosis and also maybe looking at giving her some anti-anxiety medication. The whole time we have been treated so badly, the first two years as though her behaviour was due to really bad parenting - we're not perfect but I really don't think we are that bad. All of her behaviour suggests to me she has aspergers, I have worked with other teenage girls who have it who are so similar to mine; coped well up to adolescence but now really struggling, meltdowns, routines extremely important, can't change plans, v inflexible thinking, reeling off sentences which are direct quotes from books, lack of eye contact, obsessions with different hobbies then dropping them suddenly etc. I just feel if anyone actually spent some time with her and got to know her it would have been pretty clear. Instead we are treated like Munchausen's parents for even suggesting she may have ASD, treated like we are terrible parents. I'm at my wit's end now and don't know what to do. I can't believe how awful our experience with CAMHS has been. Am I being unreasonable?

OP posts:
t4gnut · 14/06/2016 12:04

That sounds like an organisation that is run off its feet struggling to cope.

Theonslostbits · 14/06/2016 12:06

Camhs do diagnose asd! The gp refer to camhs!!

AllegraWho · 14/06/2016 12:14

That really depends.on the area, t4. In our area it's always been that was responsible for the diagnosis, and the psychiatrists with the relevant skillCAHMSskillset always been a part of that team.

This is probably why we actually had no trouble getting the initial ASD diagnosis. The process took about a year, which seemed forever at the time, but which I now know is actually uncommonly fast.

As for the Tories, I absolutely agree that the cuts have not helped and have likely made the pressure on the one remaining service (namely, CAHMS ) intolerable. I know that the cuts had to happen, but to start by removing the already inadequate provision for the most vulnerable members of the society ? That's abhorrent.

However, our involvement with the therapeutic, as opposed to the diagnostic, branch of o predates Tories, and this is why I do not blame anyone other than the individuals within CAHMS we had the misfortune to meet, as well as the local service as a whole, that made

AllegraWho · 14/06/2016 12:20

it possible for these individuals to wreak damage unchecked.

But mostly I blame them for giving up on my daughter. A suicidal, self harming, anorexic teenager should never be discharged from the only mental health service in the area, especially not if you believe her parents to be obstructive and tgeir relationship poor and unhealthy.

Anonquestion · 14/06/2016 12:29

I have been told we can only get an ASD diagnosis from CAMHS! Unless we go private..

OP posts:
Anonquestion · 14/06/2016 12:30

allegra that sounds so so difficult, am really sorry to read all you've been through Flowers

OP posts:
PhilPhilConnors · 14/06/2016 12:32

Struggling so much that they waste resources on their asd patients that aren't going to work (non-asd specific parenting classes), that they focus their efforts on involvement that blames parents - focusing on relationships and twisting parents's words instead of listening to what the problem actually is.

I have no doubt that the organisation is struggling, but even before the cuts our area had a dreadful reputation for dealing with HFA. Surely with the cuts they should be trying to run a tighter ship?

AllegraWho · 14/06/2016 12:55

In all fairness, and judging by whaCAHMSfo workers on this thread have said, they might well be trying, but there.too many bloody leaks in the hull, and the ship is so close to sinking that the only way for many of the crew to ensure their own survival is to jump overboard, and ship be damned.

And for that I don't blame them one bit.

But going back to the issue of naval command, you know, the folk that allocate the resources, what exactly do they think they are doing, letting the ship Vulnerable Youth sink ? Do they really think that not addressing the mental health issues in the young will stop the drain on public resources in the long run ?

Who is more likely to become a productive adult member of society ? The one who was given the help, taught the coping skills, treated as a person of worth when young, or the one that was thrown overboard as damaged goods and unnecessary balast?

Or are they aactually hoping that these young people will drown and therefore render the point moot ? Survvival of the fittest in the 21st Century developed West ?

Well, count me out. I'd like to think that human race, as a whole, has the potential to be a lot better.than that, to embrace the difference rather than eradicate it.

Because, you see, if we were all to get behind culling the individuals who were showing signs of being somehow faulty, let's say just people on the spectrum, bipolar, neurological disorders : no Einstein, no Tesla , no Steven Spielberg, no Bill Gates, no Gary Newman, no Sid Barrett, no Spike Milligan, Stephen Fry, Stephen Hawking (in fact, the way this is going, no people named Stephen at all)...

Sorry. I went off on one. Nothing to do with CAHMS. Everything to do with resource allocation. At least, that's what I sometimes fear, round about 3 am on a sleepless night.

PhilPhilConnors · 14/06/2016 12:57

Excellent post Allegra Flowers

MiscellaneousAssortment · 14/06/2016 19:17

I rather want to hug Yorksha and similar. It's such a shame you're leaving.

Parents are desperate, the culture is not one of respect or engagement, it's become one where no one is listening. With wait lists of 2 years and up, and considering parents have to be really worried to get a referral in the first place... By the time anyone sees them (if they do even see the parent or child), they aren't newbies at the start of their journey. To treat them as anything less than the experts and advocates they are. Parents are a source of insight, a wealth of tried and failed strategies, a text book of what works and what doesn't. Clearly they are not the final solution otherwise they wouldn't be begging to get their child seen by CAMBS. But to have their own skills and experience shut down, belittled, discarded, especially when they are an essential part of the solution for that child, it doesn't make sense and it certainly doesn't help anyone. A good professional will help the parents in order to help the child. But as services are stripped bare and parents will have experienced an awful lot of substandard care which they'd had to fight through for their child... They come to appointments with all that history. With all those institutionalised barriers, battles and yes, too many professionals who failed their child.

Its incredibly hard to create positive and respectful engagements when each side is drained and battered.

I suspect the professionals on here are among the good ones. But they're standing up for a dying service in which good, caring, competent professionals are the exception, not the norm.

This is the issue at the heart of the problem. When services are being run down into the ground, this is exactly what happens. Over worked professionals propping up a system designed to fail.

Stage 1: front line staff cover the gapeing holes.
Slowly giving more and more to do the job they know needs doing. Slowly giving too much and the workload never gets better, the cases never get cleared... The children don't get helped. As I think York said earlier the unacceptable choice of 'which one of these children is less likely to try and kill themselves tonight'.

Stage 2: something's gotta give
The ones that care can't do it anymore. They can't watch the car crash unfolding. They can't stand the pummeling they get when they do their best and still families are failed. They can't take another angry parent and desperately poorly child. They can't keep on standing for something that is shit.

Stage 3: skeleton manning a ghost ship
The people that are left are those you've given up. Or given in. Or who can't quite give it up though it's gone way past being fulfilling or caring but sometimes they get that flash of pride in helping... Less and less though. And the others, well, compassion fatigue accounts for a lot of the stories on here. That and the people that never cared in the first place. Because they're the only ones who can stick it.

The system is rotten and failing. There will be good people left. But they are the exceptions not the rule.

The main thing I've noticed about failing institutions, is the lack of respect. It's catching, and it lets in the very very bad stuff. Disrespect from the management to all staff, disrespect amongst front line staff, disrespect for parents, disrespect from parents, and in that whole mix of unpleasantness, the kids really don't get a look in. It's all about excuses, passing the buck, blame and working the system. No one gives a shit about each other (or at least, they can't show it).

To revive it, there has to be an all out war on disrespect and incompetence. Not finding a low level sacrificial lamb when the media demands blood., but a strong and enduring belief that people are good, people deserve respect, and people are appreciated. From the top down.

God I wish that turn around would happen. Sadly, we're in 'run it into the ground' territory and no sign of hope yet.

snowgirl29 · 14/06/2016 19:46

with wait lists of two years and upwards, and considering parents have to be really worried in the first place

Well yes Miscellaneous that's quite true. Yet it still took me to put a formal complaint in before I could even get a referral for a 6yo who was displaying SIs. I don't complain lightly, but I showed a diary to his paed, who brushed it off, I told them about what he says, what he tries to do and was brushed off. I told the GP too. Who brushed it off because they trusted the paed having previously worked together. Complaint was escalated because of the nature of DSs behaviour when I complained, and only then did I have a referral to camhs for DS.
When you then have people claiming to be from camhs saying the DSM is up for debate to one poster and to another that they're 'clearly battling their own demons' and then complaining they find it offensive to be painted in a bad light. Well, they're not exactly helping themselves are they?

Very much agree with your comment that some services need reviving, the great thing about the last lady we had from camhs was that she wasn't easily rolled over by the senco with a bee in her bonnet school. When told 'but DS is fine', she didn't say "okay then" and leave it there. She told them that wasn't the point and that DS & I needed extra support regardless of whether he was fine at school or not. We walked away from that meeting with a plan of what to do with DS in school, what to do at home, how can one help the other and vice versa and what was working well etc etc.

snowgirl29 · 14/06/2016 19:50

allegra Flowers

Zeed · 29/12/2016 00:36

OP here. Think my account got deleted!! I have put a new thread in the aibu talk page. Thank you all so much for your support, was at breaking point when I wrote the initial thread xxx

Unicornsandrainbows3 · 29/12/2016 08:52

This makes me sad to read and we have had the same crap experience with CAMHS twice now. We are not in the Uk either but Camhs has an appalling reputation here too and for good reason.

Whatsername17 · 29/12/2016 09:16

You need to get your daughter assessed by an educational psychologist for ASD. You can go through your gp or the schools senco. Camhs have gone down hill so badly. I'm a head of year and dread making a referral. Just trying to get them on the phone is a nightmare.

Zeed · 29/12/2016 16:32

whatsername I think clinical psychologists can diagnose ASD as well? We are due to see ed psych next term... if the people she's booked to see are off sick... they only come to the school one day per term! Apparently they too are very underfunded

Zeed · 29/12/2016 16:34

Also we asked GP for ed psych and they flat-out refused to do anything - said they had nothing to do with this side of things!! Envy

DalekBred · 29/12/2016 17:07

It's not just you, it's like they go out of their way to both not find an issue and blame the parents for any negative behaviour. Never heard a good word about them, useless service, hellbent on doing as little work as possible.

To be honest, if we were responsible for our son's difficulties, we wouldn't have been so desperate to seek help for him in the first place. It was a shock to realise that despite being totally honest, our CAMHS therapist twisted information to fit their criteria and stuck doggedly to that even though it bore little relation to what we live with every day.

^^ those posts above.

and they might be underfunded but lack of money money doenst mean not listening to the concerns of parents. no excuse not to listen.

theymade my Dc more anxious, and I ended up telling them where they could go, DC is better off without their interference and judging.
they should be experienced and trained enough to tell the difference with bad parenting and a child with complex medical diagnosed mental health issues.

a single parent on income support, perfect target for judging the parent. single parent on IS because they've had to care for DC full time as DC has medical issues and cannot function in society. (ASD, ODD, ADHD, social anxiety and some physical problems). er, pretty obvious, but then the child is just a name on a piece of paper and as poster above said they don't have to live with the child daily and see what they need to deal with.

and a ''label'' isn't a badge of honour, its a necessity to help the child and to help others understand.

Muggins68 · 29/12/2016 17:36

YORKS
We have family therapy with CAMHS. There are six therapists in the room with us. It is such a waste of money! How can they justify this?
Six families could potentially be helped if they were given a therapist each.
Unfortunately in the time that we have seen them none of them have said anything helpful.
Please explain why the cost of six therapists can be justified

Muggins68 · 29/12/2016 17:37

YORKS
We have family therapy with CAMHS. There are six therapists in the room with us. It is such a waste of money! How can they justify this?
Six families could potentially be helped if they were given a therapist each.
Unfortunately in the time that we have seen them none of them have said anything helpful.
Please explain why the cost of six therapists can be justified

Zeed · 29/12/2016 19:39

Jesus Christ dalek, that sounds eerily similar to what we experienced. I'm so sorry Flowers I felt v much we were judged on our circumstances too (don't want to out myself!) We got grilled about why we were 'seeking' a label, as if we wanted DD to be on the AS. I've never been so hurt and upset. It'd be unheard of to be accused of wanting your child to have, asthma or something. We were homestly treated like we had Munchaussen's by proxy or something. The first 3 years it made DD more anxious, way way more upset. I hope it gets better for you xx

Zeed · 29/12/2016 19:41

Six therapists sounds way over the top! Have they explained why there's so many?? We had two and it eventually transpired that one of them was training the other, they didn't bother to tell us this when we started though. It was horrible... like being judged by a panel... I can't imagine what 6 would be like Sad

helpimitchy · 29/12/2016 19:55

CAMHS nearly ruined ds1's life. I only managed to get him help in the end by sheer fluke, it was nerve wracking because he needed to be well enough to do his a levels. We were involved with CAMHS on and off for around 13 years and they were beyond awful. Positively harmful in fact.

Ds2 has had to leave his school and is due to start online schooling because we can't get him an NHS asd assessment and therefore help. He's under a private child psychiatrist who agrees that he has asd and he's on meds for acute anxiety and ocd. He's bullied and not coping at school and we're just not prepared to put him through the wringer any more. Mercifully, we are able to afford to access a bit of help, but the local authority won't accept a private diagnosis, so we're still coming up against a brick wall.

The mental health of our young people is being flushed down the toilet. It's sickening.

helpimitchy · 29/12/2016 19:58

Oh, yes, and I have aspergers, so they run rings round me of course Hmm

showmeislands · 29/12/2016 20:02

I'm a clinical psychologist - traditionally, according to its theoretical orientation, family therapy can involve two therapists, or alternatively one therapist leading and a reflecting team of 2-4 therapists (who remain quiet during the session but contribute at the end sharing their observations).

However, in the (very busy but IMO pretty good) CAMHS I work in, we do family therapy with just one therapist per family. This seems to work well and obviously it means we can offer help to as many families as possible, which is the most important thing.

The only times I (occasionally) have another therapist in a session with me is if I have a trainee or assistant psychologist observing me. This happens only with the permission of the child/parent/family. With having six therapists in a room, I can only imagine either they were using a reflecting team model or some of those involved were in-training still (and therefore being involved as a learning opportunity).