Another buggy in wheelchair space thread

[MsAR]

I got on the bus at the same time as a wheelchair user was queuing to do so. The driver told the wheelchair user there wasn't room, so I quickly checked and saw it was a buggy and a shopping trolley in the space.

The driver told the wheelchair user there would be another bus in a few minutes and they didn't seem to mind and weren't particularly insistent about getting on.

Was I being unreasonable to step in at this point and tell the driver that the person with the buggy should get off as wheelchairs have priority? He was pretty annoyed when I did, and kept repeating that there wasn't space.

I'm in London, and there are clear signs on every bus stating this is the case. I've often had to get off a bus when a wheelchair needed to get on and would never question if asked to do so.

Would it also be unreasonable for me to complain to TFL? I know I'm being a busy body but the driver's attitude really irritated me! I'd like the mumsnet jury to help me decide what to do, if anything.

Yes sooty behave
How are peole to know that the wheelchair symbol and the notice means it is for a wheelchair,
They only know cos of a thread on mn.
Bless them

Which is why you made your post earlier ending with "sod that"

If it's not your fault but the fault of planners you don't much care about the effects on others by the sound of it.

What do you think of my suggestion that supermarkets should be forced to become fully disability compliant or be closed down until they do?

Samcro Why not just pack these threads in all together then? Why talk about it in first place if you aren't going to happy that people's views change the more people talk about it?

Pointless.

The problem is people with disabilities face the ignorance every day, so it soon starts to wear them down.

Today we have had the parents calling Ds rude at he school fair, giving daggers when he started a meltdown.

We have had people who apparently can't see a SN buggy so just push in front of it and then complain when Ds kicked his legs out because they were too close to him.

I have had "he should be walking" comments too. I would love it if he could walk around like most children on his age, unfortunately his list of problems makes that impossible for him.

So not only do people with disabilities and their parents/carers/loved ones have to deal with the massive stress that comes with living with disability they also have to live with the ignorance which on a day like today is just rubbing salt into the wounds

Yeah my wording wasn't great sooty. I just don't want to travel all the way to a different store when I don't have the time or the energy to do so.

Fair enough. I still think that stores without dedicated disabled facilities should be forced to install them.

I agree with you.

I'm sorry sirzy :(

What do you think of my suggestion that supermarkets should be forced to become fully disability compliant or be closed down until they do?

By this do you mean having a toilet exclusively for disabled people to use? If so I think your expectations are unrealistic. Many supermarkets don't have space to provide a toilet separate from baby changing. They are meeting the law by providing a toilet that disabled people can access. To all those saying scrap the baby changing facilities altogether: that's not going to happen. Supermarkets want to attract families. They want new parents to buy nappies, formula, baby clothes, toys, weaning stuff and all the other baby paraphernalia. My local Tesco even sells buggies, Bumbos and breast-pumps. It has half a floor dedicated to baby clothes and several aisles of baby products. Of course they are not going to get rid of the baby changing facilities, any more than they will get rid of the P&C spaces or the highchairs in the cafe.

My baby's safety and comfort is my priority. I will always opt to change him in the safest, most hygienic place. You are being ridiculous if you think mums should leave baby in a dirty nappy or change him on a filthy toilet floor just to keep an (empty) room free. Equally ridiculous to suggest mums should develop a 'camel bladder' or wee with baby balanced on their lap or the cubicle door open, when there is an accessible loo that will fit their pram.

I'm not interested in how people 'managed' in the days before baby changing facilities, P&C spaces etc. We are lucky enough to have these facilities now, in a society that is more child-friendly than it once was. I agree more disabled facilities are needed but the answer is not getting rid of the facilities for babies.

In reality how often have you had to wait to access the disabled loo? A few minutes? It is usually empty IME. Changing a nappy takes a few minutes.
If there was a queue of mums waiting for the baby changing table and you couldn't wait I'm sure they would let you go to the front of the queue.

I'm shocked at the rudeness of some posters on this thread eg belittling and sneering when a poster admits they lacked awareness. Such nastiness comes across as arrogance. Do you think this helps your cause? Improves awareness? Encourages people to be empathetic?

It's not a them or us situation. Posters with disabilities are also parents. And posters asking for awareness about disabled toilets and wheelchair spaces don't always have wheelchairs or disablities. It is wrong to make it so as you have done.

I am as shocked by your posts and others as you claim to have been. But CBA addressing it any more tbh.

I do think your post is quite arrogant also though.

And illustrating what someone said recently, that people with disabilities are meant to know their place and act all humble.

But unless you stand outside a disabled toilet 24hrs, you cant possibly say it's usually empty.

That's like saying it's okay to use wheelchair spaces on the bus, because they're usually empty.

There's always going to be a huge possibility that there's a wheelchair user waiting further down that route for that empty wheelchair space, and there's also going to be that huge possibility that there's a high chance a wheelchair user will be needing that disabled loo too. There was a couple of times when DM was in a wheelchair, when we used the loo, that on coming out, there were other people, also wheelchair users waiting to use the only loo.

And as said earlier, to put it quite bluntly, that few minutes can mean the difference between a grown adult shitting themselves or not.

Prams aren't wheelchairs and have no place in a toilet designed for wheelchair users or others with disabilities unless there are also baby changing facilities in the same room.

What's so hard to understand about that? If people struggle to manage prams and pushchairs in public loos then get a smaller one, leave it outside or campaign for larger cubicles. Don't steal the spaces of those who fought long and hard to acquire them.

Anything else is selfish and arrogant.

Where are posters suggesting baby change facilities should be scrapped? I thought people were suggesting it makes more sense to have facilities iin the male and female toilets.

Disabled people and their families don't live in a vaccum; they are parents themselves, have siblings - it isn't a them and us situation because we are all them and us.

My son lives in a world that makes him more disabled - steps everywhere that he struggles to manage, noise everywhere, toilets with no place to change him but the floor, bus drivers that don't lower the step so he can easily get on the bus to the one space allocated for him but taken up by a buggy whose owner won't fold it because their baby is sleeping

He needs these adjustments, and disabled facilities are for him and people like him, because otherwise this world is just not accessible to him.

"He needs these adjustments, and disabled facilities are for him and people like him, because otherwise this world is just not accessible to him."

thats the crunch
disabled people don't have the options open to able bodied parents.

Meandmythreelovelyboys you have made some totally reasonable points and I'm sorry people on here have been so rude to you.

I fold for wheelchairs on the bus but I definitely wouldn't change my baby on the floor of a public toilet.

Many supermarkets don't have space to provide a toilet separate from baby changing. They are meeting the law by providing a toilet that disabled people can access. To all those saying scrap the baby changing facilities altogether: that's not going to happen. Supermarkets want to attract families.

In the many cases they could provide those facilities in a normal toilet, and many do by having fold-down tables.

Changing an older child or an adult on the floor is necessary and unavoidable for 1000s of people around the could try, one of them is my son.

The man is this photo writes a description of how hard it is for him to change his 7 year old here please read it.(and sign his petition)

When my dcs were babies, I always had a changing mat in my bag, and sometimes changed them on the floor (if I couldn't find any baby changing facilities, or if I just needed a pee and there was nowhere to put them) it wasn't the worst thing in the world! Lugging round a half a picnic rug, and squeezing 6 year old Ds onto the floor with his head next to the toilet bowl, when whilst I am trying to clean him up is a whole lot worse.

TheVillagePost

Meandmythreelovelyboys you have made some totally reasonable points"

Which ones? Which ones were totally reasonable?

HazeyJane I'm truly sorry that you have to change your son on the floor. That must be very difficult for you. I appreciate that I'm very lucky I don't have to change my baby on the floor because facilities are provided. I hope that the changingplaces campaign works and you get the facilities you need.

but how long until they become another thing that the Tabs take over?

How awful to be rude to someone who talks of being Sarkily nice to a wheelchair user so they will stfu and then downgrades it to having a silent eye roll at them.

Guess we should have given them some flowers for that one,.