Another buggy in wheelchair space thread

[MsAR]

I got on the bus at the same time as a wheelchair user was queuing to do so. The driver told the wheelchair user there wasn't room, so I quickly checked and saw it was a buggy and a shopping trolley in the space.

The driver told the wheelchair user there would be another bus in a few minutes and they didn't seem to mind and weren't particularly insistent about getting on.

Was I being unreasonable to step in at this point and tell the driver that the person with the buggy should get off as wheelchairs have priority? He was pretty annoyed when I did, and kept repeating that there wasn't space.

I'm in London, and there are clear signs on every bus stating this is the case. I've often had to get off a bus when a wheelchair needed to get on and would never question if asked to do so.

Would it also be unreasonable for me to complain to TFL? I know I'm being a busy body but the driver's attitude really irritated me! I'd like the mumsnet jury to help me decide what to do, if anything.

The irony being that the changing facilites aren't suitable for older children and adults with disabilities!

Actually snowgirl that is pretty much what foggybottom said - at least about young parents anyway

I was commenting on some posts on this thread, made by current parents (no-one's id'd themselves as a grandparent), who keep on rolling out the ridiculous rubbish that it's so difficult with a pram on a bus that they just can't see why they can't have the priority space. Or the charmer upthread who advocated, first on, first served.

I didn't mean to be "hostile" by suggesting that it is perhaps high time that buggies should be folded before accessing the bus. Thank you fanjo for explaining upthread. I simply wanted to indicate that if so many people are refusing to fold or think their needs trump those of people with a disability perhaps it's time to look at mandatory folding if abuse of accessible facilities (that the disabled fought for) is widespread.

Well said Foggy

While we still have people whining about managing buggies and prams and simply not understanding that their situation is in no way comparable to a disability we still have a long way to go.

Yorkie well then you get off and then you won't feel guilty. Problem solved eh.

I get really anxious about this because my baby is in a pram and that would be a logistical NIGHTMARE to collapse. It's a ginormous silver cross so what the hell would I do?

Not buy a pram that won't collapse easily? Or follow up some of the excellent recommendations on this thread for lightweight easily collapsed buggies for times when you need to use a bus?

But if you persist in using a pram that "needs" what is actually a WHEELCHAIR SPACE then you should be prepared to get off when a passenger who uses a wheelchair takes up the space that is legally there for them to use.

How many times does the disabled toilet get used in one day though by a disabled person? if it's free and someone needs to go but has a baby with them what's the issue?

It may seem reasonable to say that, if no-one's using the accessible loo then why can't an abled-bodied person use it?

But, but, but ...

If you read WiddlinDiddlin's posts again, or Dawndonna's DD's posts, they talk about the endless waiting all the time. Or Foogirl's description of how much more time everything takes to check accessibility. And then pre-book suitable accommodation, transport, cinema seats, and so on.

One of the things is that having a disability means that everything takes longer. Everything. And everything is more difficult. Ordinary everyday things. So to then have to wait to use a loo because an abled-bodied person couldn't be bothered waiting. It must add insult to injury.

I'd feel terrible that a disabled passenger couldn't travel because of me

Why? you'd get off the bus, wouldn't you? Wouldn't you???

what if you have baby twins? that space is for wheelchair and pram spaces if i remember correctly?

mind you i would always get off, collapsing a buggy with twins would be impossible and as an able bodied person it would be easier for me to wait for the next bus that someone in a wheelchair. i just couldn't sit there and let the driver tell them there is no space

I've been on crowded London buses where there is no space for someone to fold their pushchair, even a small umbrella buggy. People squeeze into the bus, it's very crowded.

In this scenario I think it's unreasonable to expect a pushchair user to just get off the bus to let a wheelchair on.

I always get off the bus if a wheelchair needs to get on, because I'd rather do that than faff around folding a buggy while trying to hold everything, and getting dirty looks from everyone. One old woman actually swore at me once!

In this scenario I think it's unreasonable to expect a pushchair user to just get off the bus to let a wheelchair on.

You may think that but you would be wrong. Wheelchair have priority and pram non-folders occupy the space knowing that. It's the risk they take.

In no scenario is it reasonable for a pushchair user not to let a wheelchair user on,.

I give up, can't stem the tide of ignorance.

If the bus is at crowded then the reasonable thing would be to fold it before getting on to maximise space for everyone

Even if someone had baby octuplets 10 minutes before and is driving an actual tank and is on their way to save the world.

There is no situation in which a buggy or pram takes priority over the needs of a wheelchair user.

When DD was a tiny baby I was asked to get off a bus to make way for a wheelchair. I did of course but ended up crying in the street about it because it was freezing cold, raining, dark (early evening) and I was dropped on a street I didn't know in an area I didn't know. I was alone on this bus stop with my new little baby and I felt so vulnerable. I was really cross with the wheelchair user that day because they chose to be on that bus stop whereas I didn't. I already had my bus ticket, and yet there I was in the freezing cold. It didn't feel fair. And I wasn't given the option to fold my buggy as it was too crowded on the bus (Bugaboo Bee, not a giant pram).

I have mixed feelings about the buses

I'm sure you coped on that one occasion in your life.

How can there not be room to fold a buggy if the buggy is already on the bus, taking up more room than a folded buggy?

how much oil does a gum boil boil if a gum boil coupke boil oil

I was really cross with the wheelchair user that day because they chose to be on that bus stop whereas I didn't.

shouldn't you have directed the anger at the driver who threw you off and the passenger's who couldn't get off their arses and give you and the baby a seat?

Yeah. I expect you thought they'd chosen to have a disability as well.

Why not just collapse the pram so you could have all fitted on?

Bastard wheelchair users choosing to turn up at bus stops and then expecting to be able to get on a bus and use the wheelchair space.

How can there not be room to fold a buggy if the buggy is already on the bus, taking up more room than a folded buggy?

There's room for a buggy or a wheelchair, but not a folded buggy and a wheelchair.

For what it's worth, I've read more of this thread and have now understood why it's reasonable to ask someone with a buggy to get off the bus for a wheelchair user (it wasn't the biscuit icon that convinced me). I think the sign on the bus is very misleading though