To think that infant school pupils don't need special cover up knickers?

[DrSeuss]

A local FB seller is flogging gingham over knickers to wear with school summer dresses. Just in case a child of five should do a cartwheel and someone should see her underwear for a brief moment, presumably? My daughter is five. While I would not wish her to run around showing her Frozen themed undies to the world all day, I have no wish to teach her that she must cover herself at all times. Having taught as a peripatetic in primary schools, I always walked a fine line between wishing they could sit on a carpet without flashing me their pants and thinking that their innocence and lack of inhibitions were to be held onto as long as possible since they would be sexualised soon enough.
Would any of you want to buy the chequered modesty preservers?

Playsuits is an interesting notion - here www.marksandspencer.com/c/style-and-living/gingham-playsuit-school-uniform?&edcredirect

Instinctively I prefer it to the shorts-under-dress idea but not quite sure why. And the going for a wee issue is definitely a problem.

It does seem like a lot of tremendously complicated ways to avoid the obvious solution of encouraging active young girls to wear shorts.

I agree that if seeing a child's knickers is such a huge problem and causes whatever issues for the school, then they should make the uniform trousers or shorts only for both girls and boys.

If a girl is getting teased/laughed at or worse because she did a cartwheel and someone saw her knickers, is it her fault for not having something more 'modest' on? I suppose the message that inappropriate male behaviour is the fault of females has to start somewhere.

I suppose the message that inappropriate male behaviour is the fault of females has to start somewhere.

Jesus, yes, this. Well put.

When my DD (4) sits cross-legged her knickers gape a bit and it sometimes shows her privates, so I always put a pair of shorts under her dress to prevent this. I know she's only 4, but I don't want anyone to see her privates. I don't think that's unreasonable

I'd feel the same about a son too

Reading the other thread re nighties and pants, why are people so get up about this? I've never yet been put off my breakfast by my DD sitting cross-legged in her no-pants nightie, it's just her body and she's four! I am so sad that the girls are getting these messages so young, that they have something to be ashamed of. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

AllMyBest- keep in mind it is teachers and parents making an issue of this, not little boys. And a most of those teachers and patents will be women. I own two little boys, IME they couldn't give a stuff about girls' knickers. What 'inappropriate behaviour' on the part of the boys is making parents to antsy?

10 yo said she'd stopped playing on the bars at school some days because of people seeing her knickers. I figured she was 10 now so although I was a bit sad she'd started thinking like that, I was prepared to either buy her cycle style shorts or just accept it, but she said 'I'm so embarrassed if they see my Hello Kitty knickers'.

I suggested wearing one of the 97 billion other pairs 😁 She said she tries to remember but because she likes these ones she forgets when gettng dressed. Kids 😁

We now have a weekend knickers drawer 😂

When I was 10/12 my best friend went to a different school and they had to wear those big romper gingham matching knickers - hideous!

Mind you. We had to have navy blue school knickers (regular cut) and we had to stand in a line and lift up our skirts to our waist so the frankly fucking weird head of year could check we were wearing them. At the time we just thought she was insanely strict and needed to get a life... Now I think 😳WTAF?!?!

My daughter would walk exclusively on her hands if she could. She also has a preference for dresses and skirts and I can only get her into trousers in the winter. She has worn shorts or modesty pants since before school started and at 9 she still continues to do this. Your underwear is not meant to seen by the general public, so she can flash me at home as much as she likes but out in the world, no. l couldn't get hold of Asda's modesty pants for love nor money last month so I think I'm not alone.

If it's OK to display your underwear, why do boys have to wear shorts over their pants?

What message is that sending?

Stop saying "flash" or "flashing" about a little girl's pants!

I don't think it's about sexualising girls, and only girls.

I don't think there's anything sexual about small boys- but I don't want some 7 year old's scrotum in my face when I'm stood at the climbing frame with my toddler.

We live in a culture where it's considered the done thing to keep one's genitals under a decent amount of cover in public. It's not weird to apply this to girls as well as boys.

So much hysteria on this thread over girls wearing a pair of cycling shorts or big pants under their choice of dress.

It's such a non-issue in RL.

When I was a child (I'm 48 now) I had giant navy school pants. They were navy nylon and enormous, they came right up to my tummy button & were very decent. We had to wear navy pants & aertex shirts for PE until I was about 12 when leotards were introduced. No one would ever have seen anything when we were upside down, especially since they were navy.

Both my girls wear shorts under thier dresses, we often go out straight from school, and my eldest litterally cartwheels everywhere and spends every spare stationary second doing walkovers... I get the whole girls having to cover thing isn't ideal in a progressive world but it does put me at ease and I don't have to tell her not to monkey around when she wants to wear her summer dresses! 👍

I agree with Alley kitten - anyone that gets disturbed with a flash of a 5 year olds pants or even an 8/9 year olds for that matter needs a referral.

Let children be children. If they feel self conscious at some point then by all means let them lead that. But until then I'd leave them to their innocence. Let's not put our adult issues and fears on them.

5 is way too young to be worried about such a thing.

Surely playsuits are massively impractical as they'd have to completely get undressed to go to the loo!

I teach infant school kids and the girls are always showing their knickers, none of them (nor the boys) seem to care. Only when they get to year 3 or 4 they start to try to not sit with crossed legs so as to hide their knickers. Fair enough.

Dds school does not make a fuss about girls doing cartwheels in their dresses, it's a mixed infant/junior school and from what I know from dd and other parents none of the girls have ever been teased about showing their knickers. (Wearing the wrong colour hair bobble though is a different story) Girls can wear trousers and polo shirt, red gingham dress or black/grey shorts.

Saying that, the boys and girls all change together for PE, from reception to y6, so it would be silly if the school told the girls that showing their knickers in the playground is wrong but showing your breasts in the classroom is ok.

The thought of the 11 year olds changing in front of each other bothers me a little, a lot of dds classmates have started periods, and bodies have started changing, dd has said in past that the boys don't stare at the girls boobs as they are busy getting changed themselves and it's normal as they've been changing together since reception, but it does make me uncomfortable, I don't know why but it does. I think girls going through puberty should have privacy when changing. I suppose.

Why are people getting so heated by the use of flash? It's a perfectly acceptable word for the brief showing or doing of something. It's not sexual.

I haven't read the whole thread but if boys tease girls about seeing a flash if their pants whilst doing a handstand why the fuck, why the fuck are the boys not being dealt with? Why are so many women happy that from a really young age girls are taught that it is for them to police their clothing and behaviour in the face of bad behaviour from boys?

This has made me so cross that apparently so many mothers are complicit with this.

I personally think if girls are going to be doing cartwheels and handstands they should have the option to where shorts and top rather than dresses if they prefer. I never wanted to wear a skirt to school and used to wear trousers till I changed schools. Was most annoying. I don't wear them very often now either as an adult as don't much like them. If you think of a boy having to wear a skirt would he be happy to show his pants and have girls commenting. I think not.

The problem is still with thise commenting and so it should be those who are dealt with. Otherwise you are teaching both boys and girls that (in most cases) boys can comment negatively on a girl's appearance with impunity, and it will be the girl that's expected to change.

I am confused. The sensible, plain cotton underpants I wear are enough to cover everything that needs covering. I assume children wear the same sort of underwear.

The underwear that is sold for adult women, see-through and so on, I would not be comfortable with to wear under a dress, but ... not a problem for young girls?

I would probably wear shorts under a dress that's prone to doing that Marilyn Monroe thing, but I also don't think a toddler should wear that kind of dress.

Banderwassnatched By inappropriate behaviour, I was meaning the things that have been mentioned on this thread like laughing and teasing girls, to which the answer is apparently for the girls to cover up their knickers with ones that are somehow better and more 'modest'.

Whilst considering this, it made me think of other times when what a woman is wearing seems to make her fair game for other inappropriate behaviour, because she was 'asking for it'.

I'm not ascribing any behaviour to your sons, or mine, or anyone else's here, but from the comments here, the reaction of some boys does play a part in why some parents/children would want shorts or gingham knickers.

I agree that it is adults making this a 'problem', so why are they using boys as an excuse?

I can't believe the opinions on this thread!

I live in a Muslim country. I work in an english school in a Muslim country. By the very nature Muslim people tend to be very modest. The girls can wear "summer dresses" all year round or the skort and blouse. Some kids prefer the dress; some the skort. The PE kit for girls is a skort.

Some kids wear the dress with knickers. Some wear the dress with big shorts type knickers. Some wear the skort.

The school has no rules about cartwheels irrespective of clothing, other than they must be done on the field and not on the concrete.

Britain has gone bloody mad. If a child was being picked on for their underwear we would deal with the child picking on them; not the child inadvertantly showing their knickers.

I saw one poster had commented that labia has no place in a play ground. I agree. If a child's knickers were so small that their labia was hanging out I would speak to the parent and advise they bought a bigger size. In my experience, knickers cover labias.

To the posters with problems with the word "flash". It's a word that means a temporary sighting in this context. Someone flashing their knickers does not mean they are intentionally or sexually exposing themselves. It is a mere sighting and can apply to both genders and also items or things. Eg "I saw a flash of blue as the car sped past." Get a grip!

Interesting. My dd is almost 7 and cartwheels and handstands all the time. I've never put much thought into whether she does it at school too, but I'm fairly certain she does and so fairly certain her knickers are on show occasionally. As long as she has underwear on I can't see the issue. In all my 30 years I can't recall a time I've ever seen boys or girls privates on display while they run, jump, cartwheel etc. I've also never heard of modesty shorts...are they actually called modesty shorts, or are they just like short style underwear?!