To think that infant school pupils don't need special cover up knickers?

[DrSeuss]

A local FB seller is flogging gingham over knickers to wear with school summer dresses. Just in case a child of five should do a cartwheel and someone should see her underwear for a brief moment, presumably? My daughter is five. While I would not wish her to run around showing her Frozen themed undies to the world all day, I have no wish to teach her that she must cover herself at all times. Having taught as a peripatetic in primary schools, I always walked a fine line between wishing they could sit on a carpet without flashing me their pants and thinking that their innocence and lack of inhibitions were to be held onto as long as possible since they would be sexualised soon enough.
Would any of you want to buy the chequered modesty preservers?

I don't think anyone has said that would he okriver

all I've tried to point out is that it doesn't always come from.adult influences or even those of the kids at school. and that sometimes it's just more comfortable for them or it helps make impractical clothing more fit for purpose. Dd would rather wear the summer dress than remain in the shirt and tie and wear shorts. not because she is adverse to wearing shorts but the chances if finding a pair that would fit comfortably and not annoy her are slim

I've seen girls wear shorts to school...

I get that Gileswith... ultimately it's about everyone being able to wear what they feel comfortable in. DD has gingham short sleeved blouse to avoid the shirt and tie thing. Not the cheapest but works for her.

Chilver try H&M. My DD is 2 and that's where her boy short style undies are from. They don't always have much choice of size in store but online they do 😀

The word "modesty" reminds me of certain American Puritan religious groups.
Could it be that their hard sell is getting through to us?

Personally I think infant school kids should be dressed as simply and comfortably as possible in natural fibres.

The word "modesty" reminds me of certain American Puritan religious groups.

Everyone at my high school started in a bra (or sports top) because the material the shirts were made out of was a pale colour that became see through after a few washes. Young girls developing should be able to feel comfortable with what they choose to wear, and if 'modesty' means they don't want their nipples on display, regardless of breast development, then so be it. Teen and pre-teen girls deserve to be able to choose, not be held in childhood by some parents who set an arbitrary cutoff point for 'growing up'.

"Young girls developing should be able to feel comfortable with what they choose to wear, and if 'modesty' means they don't want their nipples on display, regardless of breast development, then so be it"

Of course.

Bit different from putting "modesty shorts" on a 4 year old, though.

I think the word "modesty" has been bandied round enough to see that it's being used in an emotive sense to try to right fight. Im really not into right fighting.

Giles but this isn't just about your DD, who is in any case older than the girls being discussed in the OP. It's about the broader picture. Both on this thread, earlier on, and on the thread I mentioned, plenty of mothers didn't see the issue at all. They hadn't picked up on the message being sent out. It wasn't one I had thought of myself (DD wasn't at school then) but having read and thought about it I decided that this is one issue where I would go in all guns blazing.

And uniform isn't always the culprit, though of course it doesn't help - DD's school is non-uniform but in the infants at least, most girls are wearing dresses and skirts. DD is 6.5 and has only recently decided to wear trousers or just leggings to school. Their choice.

Girls are brought up to make themselves damn near invisible; if their parents (inadvertently or purposefully) don't succeed in that then society will make sure of it. A girl's nipples on show? Horrors! Never mind that boys nipples can be seen through thin tops, it's girls' nipples that society deems unacceptable, because society has sexualised female nipples and breasts. Carries on into adulthood. Covering up is the name of the game.

A girl's nipples on show? Horrors!

That may all be very true, but as a young developing pre-teen, I was damned sure I was going to wear a sports top under my uniform to hide my nipples than go through the process of having them on visible through my school shirt, principles be damned. I certainly wasn't interested in trying to change society, I just wanted to get through the school day, unnoticed by the teen boys on the way to and from school.

Exactly Midnite. By that age girls breasts and boys breasts are seen as different even though they may not have developed yet. And it was great you were bought cover up underwear.

My DD is starting to think about not letting others see her body. She's 7. That's not instigated from us or society. It's human nature, natural progression. I cannot understand why parents deny their children's feelings. It's one slow chip away at their self esteem and this is a daily event if they've been denied the basic request of a garment to hid their nipples or knickers.

I'm not denying any child anything, I'm certainly not going to put my principles above my child on this. But what I am doing is looking beyond the personal, and what I see I don't like, and if I could do something about it then I would. One thing I can do is not close my eyes to it.

I think there's a big difference between following the natural progression from cheerfully naked baby and toddler to more covered up pre teen and teen and the external imposing of "sitting nicely" and "being modest".

I'm sitting at the park. Dhs classmate arrived. She's got breast buds and not quite 8. She'll probably have periods before she leaves primary.