To think that infant school pupils don't need special cover up knickers?

[DrSeuss]

A local FB seller is flogging gingham over knickers to wear with school summer dresses. Just in case a child of five should do a cartwheel and someone should see her underwear for a brief moment, presumably? My daughter is five. While I would not wish her to run around showing her Frozen themed undies to the world all day, I have no wish to teach her that she must cover herself at all times. Having taught as a peripatetic in primary schools, I always walked a fine line between wishing they could sit on a carpet without flashing me their pants and thinking that their innocence and lack of inhibitions were to be held onto as long as possible since they would be sexualised soon enough.
Would any of you want to buy the chequered modesty preservers?

Giles I never had much boob until I was 16 either - not that big now. I finally persuaded mother to buy me a bra when I got my period at 13/14 as "I didn't need one and in her day there was no such thing as a AA cup, her mother made her one out of hankies......". My underwear was embarrasing while I was at school and when I got to maybe the 6th form, I used my pocket money/cash I earnt to buy 2 bras and some nice knickers. The embarrassment of my undergarments was also excruciating - I feel for you not being even bought a bra . As I said DD almost 8 asked for and got a pack of crop vest tops. I did have to think about it, possibly because of my upbringing I am still confused sometimes as to what is or Isn't appropriate. She decides what she wants and what is comfy.

Now that I've had a bloody good think, this approach in my mind is far more respectful to a child and definitely does not promote their sexualisation. If anything, it is making genitalia and boobs flat or otherwise much more of a non event because the child won't embarrassed about what they are wearing and therefore will not be preoccupied with thinking about their body. Then if another child teases them about their body or underwear, they will feel far more confident in their skin and brush off any stupid comment.

I don't know who posted they wouldn't get their DD in yr 4 a crop vest top underwear. I find this attitude very sad. It's just a bloody short vest. It's got nothing to do with sexualisation. This is a very controlling attitude, which could potentially lead to low self esteem especially if a lot of the other girls are wearing one.

notbing worse than overheating in your school jumpers because everyone can see through white school shirts.

like you jane I'd far rather buy these things and have them.not used as they decided they can't be bothered anymore or that no one else is wearing them.anynore. than have them feel uncomfortable and their feelings disregarded just because people are reading adult messages into things.

if dd was coming back complaining of boys (or girls) making comments about her body I'd be straight down the school. as I would if teachers were telling them they couldn't cartwheel unless wearing shorts.

but if she is more comfortable with them at the moment so be it. she doesn't always wear the crop tops as certain ones can be annoying. sonetimes she wears the vest tops I've bought underneath instead. especially as it's not been that warm lately.

dd2 doesn't wear anything like that yet. occasionally she comes back still in pe shorts.

she's 5 and of she wants to laugh around in one of Dds crop tops saying "look mummy I'm. like dd1" I'll let her. far better they aren't seen as something to be embarrassed about or some huge deal.

Sounds like another thing for a child to lose at school.

It's not about what individual children choose to wear. It's about the message being sent to both boys and girls from shops and schools. I wouldn't stop DD from wearing what underwear she wanted but I would teach her that she shouldn't have to change what she wears to stop boys teasing, I would complain to a shop selling 'modesty' underwear and I would come down like a ton of bricks on the school teaching girls that they have to wear shorts under dresses or skirts, and/or failing to deal with bad behaviour from boys.

And the OP is about infant school children, FFS.

Tam. There's 360/380 kids at dds school so that makes 600 or so parents/care givers actively involved in the children's lives. I really think I have better use of my time than going the the HM because of shorts under dresses. I'm pissed off with the militant attitude to the colour and fact they have to be cycling shorts and not longer than dresses etc. But what's the bloody point? As parents, we roll our eyes and grit our teeth. Really it's worth complaining about the important stuff and not go on a bloody crusade about every last detail. If you think it's important to go blabbing on about something so insignificant as this, it makes me wonder if you've ever had a difficult problem to deal with at the school where you were stonewalled. Really, save your energy for the occasion when that happens. Schools can be appallingly crap when you need them most.

But the worrying thing is why little girls would feel they need or want to wear shorts under dresses. And the idea that adult women do it is very strange too. It doesn't really matter if our little girls know the word 'modesty', they know the feeling and that is why they're asking for shorts.

Dresses aren't of course as practical as shorts or trousers; they were designed for women who led less physical lives than the girls of today and they are 'hobbling', as are many shoes designed for girls and women. The real campaign, as various people have said, should be to allow girls to wear shorts or skorts in the summer so they have the same freedom as boys.

But I really don't think we should be so ridiculously prudish about children's bodies and we shouldn't be bringing up our children to feel this complicated ambivalence about 'free to be themselves' and 'but for God's sake cover up.'

I think the message uniform in general sends is the biggest problem.

basically tells kids it doesn't matter how hard you try or how well you behave, if you are wearing the wrong shoes or the wrong colour skirt then you will be in trouble. even though you didn't and can't buy it yourself.

that what you look like to strangers coming to visit means more than anything else.

and that strangers to you, who have never met you, got together amd said " screw practicality and comfort we will kids from 4 yrs old upwards wear this cheap nasty scratchy uniform and if they dont we will keep them in at break" and we are obliged to go along with it no matter what problems it causes you.

who cares they aren't comfortable.

who cares they can't afford days out because 2 kids in primary means hundreds are shelled out in the holidays just to fulfil the obsession with uniform.

and who cares how hard it is to find sizes that fit when your kids are tall/small/ skinny etc

if kids could just wear what they feel happy and comfortable in providing it's sensible- ie no silly slip on shoes with heels that could he dangerous or fairy winks/transformer masks that could hurt scare another child and/or stop kids from running around and being able to see properly.jm sure there would he far less of these problems.

My 5 year old is in reception and is a normal height for her age but her summer dress are all ridiculously short (& transparent) So I send her to school with cycle shorts. underneath them. I thought it was a practical thing to do & don't believe I have any issues!!

Clearly someone creating their own market to "solve" a non existant problem and making money out of baseless fears..and then more due to apparent peer pressure.
Having said that, that's capitalism in action so good luck to her...I won't be one of those falling for her "Kings New Clothes" though.....

I totally agree Giles. DD went through an awful period in Yr 1 and to a lesser extent in yr2 of being very sensitive to clothes against her skin. It was partly mild sensory processing disorder - so that's not going away, coupled with some really horrible things happening at school - instigated by something that must have come from parents. She grew out of her school clothes and everything was itchy and irritating. I bought dresses/tops/skirts and put them through the washer/dryer 10 times, not enough, 10 more times. Some days ok, some days not. We were often late for school at this time because I'd get her dressed at the very last second to create a whirlwind effect so she didn't have to think about it. Then when she did get upset we were guaranteed late but it didn't work any other way because she'd take her clothes off again immediately if I got her dressed earlier. And don't get me started on hair. She also went a few times with normal clothes on, uniform in a bag. Not to mention that she's very broad shouldered (height of the supposed average 9/10 yr old) so is in age 12 dresses from Sainsburys. So school uniform is a very contentious issue in our house. She is better now in yr3 and goes to school most days with s smile on her face. Really uniform, which is supposed to make all children equal is also a massive annoyance.

I also remember overheating in a see through school shirt and jumper on top.

jane I think that girls being taught from reception that it is for them to police their behaviour and clothing in the face of unchecked bad behaviour from boys is pretty fucking important, I'm surprised that any parent, particularly any mother, wouldn't. To me, it's a hop, skip and a jump to the victim blaming and 'she asked for it' bullshit which still pervades our society. Do you consider that a woman in a short skirt, tight top and heels shoukd expect certain behaviour from men and it's her own fault if she doesn't like it, and she should dress more 'modestly' if she wants to be left alone?

There's no uniform at DD's primary, yet lots of the younger girls still want to wear skirts and dresses, and manage to be pretty active in them no bother - I think I've only ever seen one girl with shorts underneath.

Sounds tough jane

both mine wish they could wear their own clothes. Dd1 has eczema so we do have to deal with alot of trial and error with regards to some items of uniform as seams and labels and zips in the wrong places etc can make her itch.

shirts too tight are annoying.shirts too big or sleeves too flappy annoy her.

tights mean she itches on her legs like mad and I'm. not paying 11 quid a pair for those special cotton ones given you breathe on tights and they ladder.

those buttons for adjustable waists are a no go.

scalloped/frilly trims on pants and vests are out too.

the crop tops with straps are a no go. we have to have the sports bra style ones.

every year there seems to be one less item she will wear usually as a result of supermarkets changing the styles or material slightly on what is labeled as the exact same item.of clothing.

if she could wear her own clothes I could just order a shed load of leggins and t shirts/vest tops and have half the washing I do now given they come home and change immediately.

I'm waiting to be told off about the leggins I use in place of tights in the winter...

although this time she just wore socks (which again I was waiting fir someone to say something about weather suitability)

Unless girls wear shorts or trousers, instead of dresses, but with dresses I prefer to put some shorts on underneath, especially if skirt or dress is a bit on the short side.

Totally agree with Giles and RiverTam

My 16 year old dd can arse her own smart clothes in 6 th form and wore a just above the knee skirt. A female teacher told her not yo wear it again. As the year 9 boys were peering up the stair well to see the girls pants.

That teacher won't make the same mistake again. Both dd and myself told the head to deal with the behaviour of the boys not police the dress of the girls.

Totally agree op it's utterly ridiculous and s very worrying trend message to our girls.

Wear her own clothes not arse.

Ouch Giles. Sounds like a nightmare. DD is so much better now but I feel for you and your dds. DD wears long socks all winter - she's a hardy thing. She did request tights last winter and wore them a few times to my surprise. She is getting better. Simply changing buttons from hearts to flowers in Sainsburys blouses caused massive anxiety a year or so ago. But on the whole we are over the worst I hope as its only mild and as long as the labels are cut out, she will wear most things now. And leggings are banned at dds school. She used to wear the short or long sleeved thermal vests from m&s in place of a blouse and when I talked to the teacher, she said it was fine. They are lovely and soft. Don't know if you've come across them but could be an option underneath although maybe hot at the moment and I know eczema and hot don't mix. Tbh with you if I was in your place and DD would only wear leggings, I'd write to the HT if she was pulled up on it. As we know, it's not compulsory for primary years.

Tam I really get what you are saying. DD hasn't been laughed at for her knickers. So I'm not coming at it from an angle of victim blaming. I'm really seeing it as an extra although frustrating addition to the never ending changes to the schools uniform policy. The policy was initially playground parental gossip and I was told the girls had to wear "shorts" for upside down play (don't think I missed a memo) and is less a year old. The policy wasn't even officially published until the warmer weather came about a month ago. I totally agree that boys looking up girls skirts should be dealt with by modifying the boys behaviour not the girls attire. The school have decided what the school have decided and is therefore different to Onlyicans dds situation, which does not have this policy. All I know is if my DD wants to hang ups side down, she has to cover her knickers or be berated by the dinner ladies. It may well be because of voyerism or because children have come to school in inappropriate or even no knickers, which has been discussed up thread. I'm not a PTA member or a teacher so I cannot speculate.

Overkill.....let little girls be little and without inhibition as long as possible!

let little girls be little and without inhibition as long as possible!

but equal be mindful of how they are feeling.

not one person has said that they wouldn't expect the kids making comments not to be dealt with.

and absolutely we should challenge teachers/schools also who make these things compulsory

however ultimately what matters is the child being comfortable and happy rather than being restricted by arbitrary age cut offs because of adult perceptions.

unfortunately uniform being abolished isn't likely to happen. we seem.obsessed with it. id certainly like to see it go though.

I agree lizziezombie, more of a practical issue really.

DD went outside and did cartwheels with her knickers off in the garden yesterday. I was astounded as she's been reluctant to show her privates to dh recently and she did it in front of him as well and in full view of neighbours upstairs windows - the naked innocence is fine by me. So I don't think the uniform policy has had that much of an impact....

DD is 10. Doesn't wear shorts under dresses or skirts. No idea if other girls at her school do or not - will ask her. I know a few girls wear shorts to school (without a dress on top)