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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To ignore X-H and DD(12)

71 replies

Cheeseinthetrap · 31/05/2016 15:30

I recently wrote about letting DD(12) go off to Paris with X-H for half term.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2644484-To-make-DD-go-camping-instead-of-with-X-H

I knew I should have said no but against my better judgment I let her go. X-H went nc with our twins when they were around 2 and got back into contact 3 years ago after moving back to London.

To his credit he has tried to really build a relationship with them, it worked with DS and they're relatively close but his relationship with DD is non existent, she really can't stand him.

Without informing me X- H went and booked once in a life time concert tickets for this Thursday in Paris and chose to make a week of it so he could try and bond with DD, she already had plans, which I had to cancel & then change DS' plans for this week as well.

They left on Friday and I have had non stop phone calls/texts from the both of them. DD12 has been the child from hell this weekend, she refused to speak at all on the journey there & hasn't stepped foot outside the hotel room, she's been glued to her phone & just down right rude, she's just called in tears because X-H has threatened not to let her go to the concert on Thursday if she doesn't start enjoying the trip, he sadly doesn't know her well enough to know that that tactic simply won't work, she'll either just be horrid outside the hotel or decide she won't go at all, he's tried & miserably failed to take away her phone.

I tried to warn them about this trip but I was railroaded and now I'm sick of playing referee from another country, am I BU to just put them on mute/completely ignore them & enjoy this week with DS

OP posts:

springydaffs · 01/06/2016 12:19

Indulge? hahahaha.

No, wait. HA HA HA HA.

Like I said, their 40s may be their moment. Then you'll have no power to indulge or not indulge.

But then of course there's their inheritance. Yep, that has a bit of power, should you wish to use it.

Tiggeryoubastard · 01/06/2016 12:21

no, I don't subscribe to your idea of control. Just teaching them to behave decently and not giving in to manipulation is enough.

Liiinooo · 01/06/2016 12:22

tigger. You sound a bit harsh,

she is 12 and her dad abandoned her. Her behaviour is bad but not as bad as knowingly deserting your children for 6-7 years, behaviour which can't help but adversely effect her. I doubt very much she is deliberately conniving to manipulate people by behaving this way, she is unconsciously expressing feelings she doesn't fully understand.

Behaving like this now doesn't mean she will be a total mare when she is older. Love and understanding now will help repair some of the damage done earlier and maturity will bring greater empathy. I could be a right little cow when I was a teenager but I'm quite nice now.

OP - this must be so frustrating for you. I would give your X DH some words of wisdom about how to approach her - you don't want this trip to further harm your daughter after all, no matter how much the dad might deserve it. Then text your DD and in a few well chosen words tell her not to be an idiot and risk missing out on the concert (who is it? I'm intrigued). It isn't too late for them to retrieve the rest of the week. A bad start doesn't have to mean a bad finish. Then switch your phone off and leave them to it. You deserve a break too .

springydaffs · 01/06/2016 12:22

That's sorted then, Tigger.

Simple!

miwelaisjacydo · 01/06/2016 12:25

To be fair he was absent for so long she didn't trust him. She is testing him. he was absent for far too long. Whilst negative behaviour isn't the best thing in the world it must be a hard situation for her.she is also coming up teenage years too which is hard!

PovertyPain · 01/06/2016 12:25

She is old enough to know how to behave. Yes, her father was wrong, but she sounds very spoilt and manipulative. She went away with him, because she wanted to go to the concert, but refuses to have anything to do with him? No bloody way, would I be taking her to a concert, either. I actually think you're getting satisfaction out of this and that's so wrong. You should be telling your daughter to buck up or she won't be going to the concert. You know you can help them bond but you're sitting there thinking, serves him right. Yes, it's understandable that she hates him, but if he's really trying, then she could really benefit from this relationship. The alternative is, an angry young person that feels abandoned by her father or guilty about her behaviour towards him.

On an aside note. Is she on the internet on her phone? You could be in for a fetch nasty shock when you get the bill.

Kitsa · 01/06/2016 12:30

Tiggeryoubastard when you write your book on being the perfect parent I'd love a signed copy.

OP's daughter doesn't sound like a master manipulator to me. She sounds like a kid who will lash out and cut off her nose to spite her face when hurt or angry. Sure that's not perfect behaviour but it's not uncommon either. I don't think it's pandering to try to make sure it doesn't happen.

Throughgrittedteeth · 01/06/2016 12:30

Having had a very detached relationship with my dad I can see how being polite and decent would be difficult. Even now as an adult I struggle with the resentment for the time and years lost and DF is a wonderful dad and grandad now.
Also she is 12 and you have a lot going on at that age, so maybe cut her some slack. If you trust him (which I assume you do) then she doesn't need protecting but he does need to deal with her. I think sending him some suggestions and getting on with your own stuff is a great idea. They'll be fine - think of it as making up for tantrums when she was a toddler.

IWILLgiveupsugar · 01/06/2016 12:35

I would tell ex h that she is testing him to see if he really is in it for the long haul. I would also point out that he doesn't know her and next time he would do well to listen to you, the parent who has actually been there and does know her. I would support his decision not to take her to the concert. She is being a brat and ruining this experience for her brother. It was her choice to go, no one made her and she ought to be polite, end of! I would call dd and tell her that tbh.

I do agree with pp that you are allowing her to dictate what happens a bit too much and indulging her strops. Yes, she has had a shitty dad but it doesn't mean you have to give her all her own way to make up for it. She needs telling no and having some consequences for bratty behaviour.

shiveringhiccup · 01/06/2016 12:37

What is wrong with all of you?!

She is a child. She was abandoned by her father for many years. She must have very deep profound hurt about this. He is now trying to bribe her to like him and as she is a child she didn't have the maturity to separate the concert from the time with her dad and know it wasn't worth it. She is now completely on her own in a foreign country with a man who has caused her so much hurt.

Of course she's acting out! She isn't however being a 'brat' or any of that rubbish you're all saying. Neither is she the 'child from hell'. He was the dad from hell by disappearing from her life and he needs to suck up the consequences and be patient and loving with her.

Discipline from him as if he had always been there is inappropriate and he needs to accept that she has a lot of healing to do.

You need to be there for her. This sounds horribly painful for her. Don't make her feel abandoned by you too.

miwelaisjacydo · 01/06/2016 12:44

shivering totally agree with your post

shiveringhiccup · 01/06/2016 12:45

And yes agree with PP that she is unconsciously testing if he will abandon her again. All normal and reasonable responses to what she's been through.

What's not reasonable is your 'told you so' attitude and thinking about going NC while she's a child, on her own with a dad she doesn't trust or know well, in a foreign country.

LillianGish · 01/06/2016 12:49

She's 12 - she doesn't know what she wants. I feel really sorry for her - she's gone to Paris with the father who abandoned her because she wants to see the concert. She doesn't particularly want to hang out with her dad and who can blame her. He needs to win her round - and to understand that that is going to take a bit more than taking her to a concert. I agree with the poster who said she's probably testing to see if he really does love her or if he's going to abandon her again now the going has got tough. Switch your phone off - you are not there, there is nothing you can do. When she comes back don't give her a hard time - she's having a hard time now as it is. No need to say I told you so - they will both know that without any need for you to rub it in.

SpringerS · 01/06/2016 12:52

Everything from Shiveringhiccup and Somerville is spot on. Apart from them and one or two others, some of the advice on here will cause serious damage to your daughter's wellbeing if you take heed of it. She is not being a manipulative brat, she's a prepubescent girl dealing with a world of hurt on top of all the hormonal crap that hits a girl at that age. Her father tried to bribe her for her affection and unsurprisingly it is backfiring on both of them. Tell him to suck it up and be there for her when she needs you. You can be firm with her but you also need to be empathetic to what is a sucky situation for her.

It's very unfair that this is all coming down and you are being left to pick up the pieces of a situation that you didn't create. But that's the unfortunate reality for the responsible parent when the other parent tries such thoughtless tactics.

princessmi12 · 01/06/2016 12:55

Sommerville
Umm, she's twelve. This sounds like entirely typical behaviour for a 12 year old.
No,its not typcal at all. Somewhere down the line OP allowed her to behave like a little madam and now all of them suffering the consequences.
OP its about time to shaw her behaviour casing stress to everyone around. I wouldn't blame whole situation on father's absence as you admit yourself Springy, letting her go was my way of protecting her from herself. If I'd refused, she would have gone out of her way to stop doing anything that remotely made her happy just to punish me

Id send her a text: Darling,you wanted to go to concert so please enjoy yourself. And I would ignore any following incoming messages.

sue51 · 01/06/2016 12:59

I don't think she's being manipulative, I think she sounds like a normal hormonal teenager who is also stuck with a Father eho chose to adandon her and is now demanding a relationship using this concert as a bribe. Your ex will have to deal with it as he brought it on himself.

scallopsrgreat · 01/06/2016 13:14

Completely agree with shiveringhiccup.

I'd go NC with your ex. You have no obligation to sort out him or this situation for him.

I'd continue the conversation with your DD though. As others have said she needs you still. She's a child. She's not a 'manipulative' 'brat'. And she's probably a bit scared and retreating into herself and what she knows and can control.

Bluebolt · 01/06/2016 13:19

Where is DS in all of this, I understand her actions but not when they have a knock on event. Spoiling the trip for ex is one thing but spoiling it for her sibling is another.

Keely93 · 01/06/2016 13:38

When I was 12 my biological father wanted to start having something to do with me after never being there, I wasn't as upfront as your DD and so hid a lot that I was still hurt by him walking out and never wanting anything to do with me.
She did choose to go, but she was offered a rare opportunity and took it regardless of who she was going with... She's 12! Yes, maybe she's being a pain but she's probably thinking that he needs to catch up with the years he missed. FWIW, my biological father then decided all over again three years later not to have anything to do with me because he still couldn't deal with having a daughter not a son. Now, I'm a lot happier and better off without him, pass him in the street and don't bat an eyelid. Don't force a relationship if she doesn't want one, explain she chose to go and it was silly but you understand.

Lunar1 · 01/06/2016 13:43

She's 12 and has been allowed to go away with a man who abandoned her who she has a nonexistent relationship with. Her behaviour is not the issue, she's probably terrified.

The adults here should have made different decisions, this was in no way in her best interests, and could turn out be be damaging long term depending on how her dad deals with things.

I don't think many of the posters condemning her behaviour have been abandoned long term by a parent.

Somerville · 01/06/2016 13:47

Princessmi12 It is behaviour that is well within the bounds of normal for a 12 year old. I have a 14, 12 and 9 year old, and the kind of thing the OP is recounting is very familiar

My kids haven't had a father abandon them for years on end. They lost him to cancer. But I'm aware of studies that show that children and teenagers who have the trauma of their father dying have better emotional outcomes than those who have the trauma of their father choosing not to be involved in their lives. And this pre-teen stage is about the trickiest, typically, at which to deal with all this.

OP's DD is dealing with his earlier rejection, and everything they both missed out on, which is huge. Also with his reappearance in her life. Also with his swings from NC to extravagant bribery. Also with her brother's easier acceptance of him and what does that then mean about her that she can't. Also that her mother advised her not to go and now it's eminently clear that Mum was right. And probably half a dozen other things that only she knows about.

The last thing she needs is her mother also going NC with her.

Patience, time and unconditional love are what my parents gave me. I'm very close to them (wouldn't have got through the last few years without them in fact) and it's my strategy with my kids.

Sure, boundaries too. I'm very strict. But when one of my kids is ignoring me, I assume they have tricky emotions they're struggling with, and give them extra of the patience, time and love. I don't ignore them back, or tell them they're a brat, or tell them to count their blessings. It's working so far.

MrsUniverse · 01/06/2016 13:54

I was like that at her age. It wasn't manipulation. At least not consciously. But this is why you can't buy affection or redemption. To be honest I think this should have been expected and a wrong move could even further damage their relationship.

I don't know that you can talk her round OP, but you sound like a lovely mum. Maybe if you have any tips for him it could help. Other than that, this is his circus and he never bothered to train the monkeys.

IWILLgiveupsugar · 01/06/2016 14:00

shivering if this behaviour was coming out for the fist time on this trip or was just related to her relationship with her dad then I would agree with you. But the OP has said that if she didn't let dd go on this trip then all hell would break loose at home and dd would deliberately wreck her other activities. It will not benefit dd or anybody else to let this kind of behaviour continue.

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 01/06/2016 14:51

You know, most of the time when you try to bribe a 12 year old with the best treat ever it is going to work, because 12 year olds aren't mature enough to understand that the bribe comes with negative consequences.

I'm actually getting quite upset with all the 'manipulative brat' comments. I suppose, turning it the other way, I should be glad that so many posters can't imagine what the hurt and pain of being abandoned by a parent can do to a child. It really fucking hurts and even now, at the age of 45, I can't process it.

princessmi12 · 01/06/2016 15:15

Somerville
Your idea of normal is severely distorted.
My 2 dc, both over 12 ,have been abandonded by their father at some point but no,they did not behave like spoiled brats. Just because you see this behaviour in your dcs does not mean its acceptable and the norm.Simply your situation and OPs situation are similar to some extent. And let me say Im really sorry your dcs lost their father:( Life is not fair at all

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