To ask how you afford private school fees

[Elephantslovetofly]

We have a young DD, and although it's a while away yet we are thinking about school. The area we live in does not have a good local school, and we are considering an independent school for her

Disclaimer - I went to a private school and for what it's worth had a great education. I enjoyed being there and did well in exams. I believe my parents decided to send me there also because of a lack of a good local state school. I might have done fine at a state school, but will never know I guess

We are probably 45 min drive from the school I went to - further than is ideal. DH doesn't mind driving her there if we decide to send her there though (if she is fortunate enough to get a place)

The issue is whether we can afford it. The fees are about £9k per year for junior and £12k for senior. Assuming we therefore need to find £1k per month for fees

My cheeky question is this - if you have a child at private school, what does your household earn and how difficult is it to find the money each month to pay the fees? Our income is about £60k, and at the moment I don't think we can do it (along with our other current expenses). Wages might go up a bit before we would need to start paying, but if this is always going to be a pipe dream i'd rather get over it now

I know we could move closer to a good state school, but am exploring my options at this stage. Don't really want to move, as we have a good house here and are settled

Thanks for reading

BertrandRussell I agree about the problems of listening to rumours, and I'm not writing that school off, but it's an academy that has recently turned the school around. From talking to a number of parents who have children at that school, the best are looked after. The worst are contained.

I wouldn't give a flying fuck what the grades were like in a school that cannot contain knife crime!

The low paid may pay a higher % of their income in VAT, but will still be net takers overall.

Thank you Carl. Much more elegantly put than I managed.

What worries me is the feeling of, 'well, the pupils that aren't stabbed do okay'.

Part of the catchment areas are extremely deprived. Some are really not. The primary school manages it all well, there's a good mix and I'm happy about it. I don't know how ds will do.

Yes, Elephant its typical.

I often wonder why in a densely populated place like London, there isn't a gap in the market for stripped down private schooling. Half the price with all the academics but none of the bells and whistles. The extras are nice, and worth it if you have the money, but still a lower priority than the academics when families are squeezed on affordability

Oh dd's, we're getting into hyperbole again.

Give me a link to a school that "cannot contain knife crime".

80 not London but there's a private round here that does well doing just that. I'd say it's very similar to a grammar in a full 11+ area, takes roughly the top 25%. Good essentials, but none of the extras usually associated with private. It is only relatively small, but quite established so locally there are generations of people who respect it. We also have a good few church schools and no grammars, and a fair number of people who can afford low fees but not usual fees. So an ideal market. Plus I've been told it wasn't originally cheap, but when the assisted places scheme went and it was struggling they reduced fees and facilities to get to the current situation. And even so it usually has a handful of spare places, rather than the usual waiting list. I'm not sure that a new set up in an area with a more fluid population, or any city would be as successful.

"I wouldn't give a flying fuck what the grades were like in a school that cannot contain knife crime!"

No doubt that if the school made all children walk through a metal detector on their way in, had regular stop and searches in the corridors, and security guards patrolling the premises, you'd take this as evidence that the school in question was an appalling place.

Do you know why private schools don't have knife crime? It's because they ruthlessly exclude all children who come from the sort of social backgrounds where knife crime is a problem. Nothing to do with better security or management.

BertrandRussell - is that aimed at me?

One school has an office set up for the police there, it's a big deal, although things may be picking up. The other school does not have a reputation for violent crime. It has a reputation for less academic children to be left to drift, forgotten about and basically contained. This is what I have gathered from around a dozen parents who have kids there.

I just don't know what to do for the best, whether we struggle to get ds into private education or to hope that he can get into the school where he has a reasonable chance if he continues academic. The school with the police presence may turn around by the time ds goes to secondary and be outstanding. I just don't know. That's the thing.

Must be one of those things that seems like a good idea on the face of it, but in practice it's s gap that isn't really there.

Lisamed, there are generous scholarships out there they have to be seeked out. My DS is getting 25% off his fees and there is a well known Catholic school nearby that offers up to 40%. This is just outside London.

I know of someone in my DS class who turned down a scholarship at first in another school that offered 25% off the fees and were so keen to have her offered a further 10% off.

Go to open days, they are usually friendly and build up a relationship with them. All the schools that we dealt with were very open about criteria and what the test would entail. Year 4 is a great time to start looking around.

bella70 thank you, I may have a furtle around.

There is one private school within realistic reach (minimum hour each way on the bus, good fortyfive minutes in the car, I think), and the website says nothing about academic scholarships. However I can just keep on keeping on. ds may be fine at the local academy if he continues academic.

I just don't know. That's why I clicked on this thread. Is it worth a very tough budget?

lisa ring them and ask.

"Do you know why private schools don't have knife crime? It's because they ruthlessly exclude all children who come from the sort of social backgrounds where knife crime is a problem. Nothing to do with better security or management."

Exactly. I respect any school which manages to help / support / encourage children who really need it: deprived children, children in foster care, children with aggressive behaviours. I suspect that most private schools just would not take those children, or if they did have them, they would get rid of them at the first sign of a problem. That's not a good school in my book.

Its a difficult one. DS1 has been at private since Reception and is now in Year 6. I cannot fault the education he is getting now as the school he is at starts year 7 work in 6 to get them into the swing on different subjects, he loves it. Some say the prep gives them confidence etc but to be honest he would have got that anyway as he attends performing arts school every Saturday and has done so since Year 1 so the confidence could have come from there. My DH feels that it is only now we are getting value added as the work is challenging and exciting and as the class sizes are small the teachers get to know the children. However the results are comparable to the state schools, all non selective on entry but they are huge.

For the first time we are looking at state for our DS2 who is due to start Reception but has been kicked out of the Private School due to his speech delay. We have been surprised and delighted at what state has to offer us and are gutted we did not give it a shot for DS1. At primary I do not think we have had any added value from Private.

I would use the next year to go around every open day you can private and state and get a feel for yourself. Explore what private has to offer in terms of scholarships and remember you are the customer! With state, if your boy is very bright and has the intelligence to rise above negatives he will be fine anywhere. You mention there is a quieter school where children "coast". With the money you save you could always subsidise with tutors and have some great enriching holidays which are an education.

DS1 always says now while at the moment he loves his school and is doing well he wishes he had gone local as I mentioned in a previous post it is hitting now that he has no local friends to hang out with. I have always found with him as well he has always found kindered spirits wherever he goes and your boy will not be the only bright spark in his school, he will find like minded friends.

Go to every school you can think of with an open mind and follow your gut feeling. Good luck.

One of the more mundane reasons that indie schools are less likely to have knife crime - at least, on the premises - as well as low level disruption/spraying lynx around classrooms every opportunity/applying makeup/s timewasting with phones/putting on coast before end of lesson etc is because DC have locker and do not carry school bags/outdoors coats around with them.
This focuses on the fact that it the classroom is a workplace, rather than an extension of their social life/chaotic home.

A couple of times I have seen posters talking about moving schools for sixth form.

From my experience I would strongly suggest that this option is examined very carefully before being embarked upon. There are downsides to moving:

• impact on friendship groups
• moving to somewhere unfamiliar
• change of syllabus, lack of continuity from GCSE syllabus
• new teachers who will have unfamiliar teaching style and who will be unfamiliar with student's learning style
• missing transition - some schools start 6th form study after GCSEs, new entrants will have missed this

All the above was from our experience. My DD moved from our albeit crap school after GCSE. IMO she lost half a term from going somewhere different.

My Ds was threatened with a knife at his indie in Year 4. The little charmer threatened to kill all the children plus their families. He terrorised the school from day 1 in Reception. He got away with it as his dad was a B List Celebrity and the Head master was starstruck. The same happened in a prep down the road with the child of a pop star. So im afraid private schools are not immune to knife crime.

My state education was appalling. There is no other word for it. The actual teaching was below abysmal. I actually support testing in schools (within reason) so that kids don't end up in the situation I did. At ds's age, most of my peers couldn't manage basic addition, couldn't read beyond stuff ds passed in reception and most had only just mastered writing their names. Eventually I was moved to a better state school where I finally started getting educated at age 14.

I do not believe that any state school is that bad now. ds will always be getting a better education than I got, no matter which school he goes to. I just worry.

Lisa the fees and distance you quote are similar to my situation. In terms of whether it is worth the financial squeeze is my issue too. This thread has highlighted to me that for some people it is worth it and for others it is not. We don't know how much 'benefit' (if any) our children will gain from private education

Lots of people have suggested to me that I should move somewhere with better state schools or a grammar - this is an option. It has been pointed out that owning a house in a 'better' catchment area will mean the money has been spent on something that will be worth more in the future. My argument here though - is the value of the money spent on the education therefore worth nothing (or at least less)....? Does wealth have to be physical and tangible....?

My issue is that I don't really know if spending the money will be 'worth it', and I will never know. Either we will choose to spend the money on her education or not - we will never know the outcome of the other option!

If only I had a crystal ball.....

Elephants, you mentioned before you were in Nottinghamshire, are you near enough the border to get into the Lincolnshire grammars particularly the Grantham ones as they offer places on marks rather that catchment? Friends of ours who lived in Newark have got into them as have friends who live down in Stamford.

Oh the kids at the private schools go in for more upmarket crime. Knive crime would be a bit rough for them The www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/2642916-Mumsnet-hack-update-police-have-charged-someone alleged MUMSNET hacker]] (not been convicted yet!) went to a very fancy independent school in Guildford

NEWS article here. He is due in court next week.

The very fact that Bertrand never discloses what type of school educated her and abled her to get to uiniversity, proves it must have been a grammar school !

You can bet that had she been educated in the type of school , i went to she would have been posting about the joy of having so many different types academic abilities in one place. The reality though she would not have got to University from my school, not one from my year group...

The poster who usually pinpoints the real issues regarding state schools outside the narrow scope of posters on here is New Life

These schools are by the way 100% Comprehensives (this is because as posters like to say you can't have a Comprehensive in a selective area). OK .
However, then how do you explain why the 100% Comprehensives (no Grammars for miles , nor private schools are so appalling in her part of the NW !

These schools don't serve the low middle or high abilty. Though i am more concerned about the high abilty children in these schools , who might have well entered as low abilty pupils. This is because they end up so failed by their schools regarding aspirations as well as the education recieved.

Moving isn't possible for us

I know that this is AIBU and most people could work out who I was and where I lived and everything anyway so being reluctant to out myself with postcodes etc is a bit hypocritical, but seriously, just take my word for it.

Lisa, if you can go and see the schools state and private on a normal working day as well. It will be easier to discuss scholarships etc on an open day as they will be set up for it but to get a true feel for the schoo a normal day is better. It is a bit time consuming but worth it