To ask how you afford private school fees

[Elephantslovetofly]

We have a young DD, and although it's a while away yet we are thinking about school. The area we live in does not have a good local school, and we are considering an independent school for her

Disclaimer - I went to a private school and for what it's worth had a great education. I enjoyed being there and did well in exams. I believe my parents decided to send me there also because of a lack of a good local state school. I might have done fine at a state school, but will never know I guess

We are probably 45 min drive from the school I went to - further than is ideal. DH doesn't mind driving her there if we decide to send her there though (if she is fortunate enough to get a place)

The issue is whether we can afford it. The fees are about £9k per year for junior and £12k for senior. Assuming we therefore need to find £1k per month for fees

My cheeky question is this - if you have a child at private school, what does your household earn and how difficult is it to find the money each month to pay the fees? Our income is about £60k, and at the moment I don't think we can do it (along with our other current expenses). Wages might go up a bit before we would need to start paying, but if this is always going to be a pipe dream i'd rather get over it now

I know we could move closer to a good state school, but am exploring my options at this stage. Don't really want to move, as we have a good house here and are settled

Thanks for reading

I had conversations with many friends who were privately and Cambridge educated and they were all really adamant that their places at Cambridge were all down to their hard work. I didn't deny that they worked hard - they did - but did they work harder then the student from the inner school Comp who walked away with 2 As and 2 Bs? My personal view is they probably didn't

Most of mumsnet don't have failing schools around them because mumsnet isn't representative of the UKs social demographic. Some of us do though. And are also aware that calling a school a comprehensive doesn't make it one, educationally or socially. All our current comprehensive system does is ditch the exam, and make it less stressful for the already privileged mc to get dc into a good school.

Hence why so many mumsnetters like the comprehensive system, because it benefits them, whilst paying lip service to the deprived by pretending it's private schools who are to blame for inequality of education.

It's very telling that any thread on private or grammar attracts negative comment, but start a thread on appealing a school you don't think good enough, or mention how pleased you are with your dcs comp, and you don't get dozens of posters piling in to say how unjust it is that the least privileged are left with the crap state schools. Education is suddenly unfair when parents aren't at the top themselves.

Maybe when all the top roles in the big companies, when most of the government, the ruling classes, have been home educated, I'll accept calls of hypocrisy.

And maybe when a lot of big companies come knocking at my door to show all their wares to woo my home schooled children, maybe I'll accept calls of hypocrisy then.

Maybe when the cricket, rugby and rowing teams are chock-full of home educated kids, I'll probably accept calls of hypocrisy.

And, of course, when our top universities are attended by a ridiculously disproportionate number of home schoolers, I'll probably accept calls of hypocrisy then, too.

Lurkedforever I don't think you have a realistic view of most state schools. Most of them are far, far more mixed than private schools. My DS's previous school for example: in an area which is very MC. But for that reason (maybe because the area is gradually becoming unaffordable to ordinary people because of house prices), his perfectly ordinary, ofsted 'good' but lovely (as I saw it) school was super mixed, with very few English DC in class and probably half of the class (or more) with English as second language and many on free meals. Many students with no English at all. This was in a very middle class / expensive neighbourhood (we moved out since because of prices). I think there's a myth on MN about 'middle class' state schools having the same population as private. It's simply not true in the vast majority of cases.

Maybe what I meant is confused. I meant that even in many MC areas particularly in London, state schools still have an extremely mixed intake.

I accept it may be different out of London.

I don't know many people who appeal etc. Again maybe a MN 'private education parents' myth that there are so many parents who appeal or who move house for catchment. Yes there are some but there are also many many who are simply not that driven by all this.

"Would all of you protesting about private schools really and honestly not send your children to one if you could afford it? And if so, presumably you'd also continue to use the NHS even if you could afford to be treated privately? Really??!"

Yes.

And yes.

And I went to a private school.

I'm not sure if the Oxbridge colleges are full of privately educated students these days - when I applied there 15 or so years ago, I had an interview but was not offered a place. Fair enough - I didn't expect it, perhaps wasn't good enough on the day. But 7 other girls from my school also applied to study the same subject at one of these universities. and not one was offered a place. This included head girl, deputy head girl, girls predicted AAA, girls with gold DofE award etc. None of this means they should have been offered places, but we were very suspicious (thanks to staff at our school) that they were trying to 'balance their numbers' that year following some bad press about the number of privately educated students amongst their ranks. In previous years 3 or 4 girls from our school had been accepted to study medicine, so we assumed at least a couple of us might be offered a place. As it turns out I went to another uni and had a great time, no it was no great loss. And in my profession no-one really gives a shit where you got your degree. A medical degree is a medical degree

Just trying to give an example of where a private education seemed to hinder me/us in some way - I don't mean that we weren't accepted, but that we were discriminated against because of where we went to school

What university did you go to, Elephants?

Don't want to give too much away! It is a RG university. Somewhere in the middle of England.....

I'll go with Warwick. Possibly Nottingham. But probably Warwick!

still I know full well that there are good, genuine, comprehensives. But I also think far too many mumsnetters have no idea or experience of the fact they aren't all like that. You've illustrated my point. Your mc area had a good school. Not everyone lives in a mc area, or in London where the density helps produce a good mix. I live in a socially deprived area, and most of my work is in other deprived areas. And the schools in them are as far from yours, or many others on here, as yours are from Eton.

Just as an aside, which of you who say you can afford private, but wouldn't ever send them, would do the same if your only state option was abysmal, not just results wise, and your child would be miserable there?

Harry you might be right.... Might not!

Lurkedforever: my point was actually very different. The good, ordinary state school my DS went to, in a MC area, had half or more DC who were recent immigrants / deprived / others who were white disruptive etc. Not at all MC in that way at all. Very very mixed, with various issues that mix brings, good and bad.

Lurkedforever if the school around my door was 'abysmal' (can't really imagine what that means but let's just say) and if my DS was miserable, I would consider various options of course.

But one person's abysmal may well be another person's good enough.

Also I just don't believe that the majority of private school parents live on the doorstep of 'abysmal' schools.

Anyway the word 'abysmal' is a bit of an exaggeration for schools, particularly primaries. What on earth would make them so abysmal?!

Ugh, meant other children who were VERY disruptive, not white disruptive obviously.

I totally agree that the people spouting all this guff don't live in areas where the state schools are awful. Did anyone ever watch the programme 'Big School' about the state system in Birmingham? Some of the children featured got to attend lovely well functioning schools due to living in the right area or passing the 11+ while other poor sods were being sent to schools that resembled overcrowded prisons with a resident police officers
on site. Parents paying the same taxes for a totally different experience. This is what needs sorting out.

Abysmal primaries:
-Year 3 children carrying machetes in their Star Wars backpacks
-reception kids handling drugs
-year 6s picking fistfights regularly and no one stopping them

In my book that's abysmal

My ds goes to a school
mumsnetters would consider abysmal. Interestingly, the reason they would think it abysmal is the fact that it has a "companion" grammar school. Which I assume most mumsnetters would expect their child to be at.

"Abysmal primaries:
-Year 3 children carrying machetes in their Star Wars backpacks
-reception kids handling drugs
-year 6s picking fistfights regularly and no one stopping them"
Happens all the time. That's what happens in state schools...

Bert

Unfortunately, you aren't too far off with your descriptions, for some state schools.

"Unfortunately, you aren't too far off with your descriptions, for some state schools."
What- machetes in year 3 and drugs in Reception? Don't be ridiculous.

Dapplegrey2, Diane Abbott was described as a hypocrite because she sent her son to a private school after criticising colleagues who had sent their children to selective schools. The issue was not of private vs state but of hypocrisy vs sincerity. MPs of all political shades steer clear of their constituency comps through seemingly not being bound by the catchment area problems which the majority of their constituents have to deal with.

The clue was in the too far off

Drugs, and fighting in my ds x2 primaries teachers did newt, and knives, drugs, in secondary.

My ds1 barely gained an education, but credit to him he came home every night and started to work on what he should be learning.
It wasn't enough though a hard as he tried, there weren't enough hours to do it all, but at least he chose the right direction.
Unless you have experienced such a school you have no idea how strong a character you need to have to survive. The skills you need to negotiate your way out of trouble, etc.
I don't know how many schools were/ are like this, I know it didn't exist in isolation.
It was still the same up to a couple of years ago.

Lurkedforever1, abysmal state schools are not the preserve of inner cities. The school my DCs attended was and is abysmal, yet it is the only school in an ordinary small town. The school in the next town isnt that much better.

The problems are not of intake, the students are representative of the town. The problems are of ingrained poor management going back years.

The worst schools these days are in small coastal towns, not inner cities. Many inner city schools have improved a lot. London is the most obvious example, although I wonder how much of that is due to different parents and more tutoring/shadow education.

I wish schools had more disciplinary tools at their disposal and that it was easier to exclude very disruptive pupils. I suspect that much of the state/private difference would disappear if this were the case.