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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Your thoughts please - for the sake of interest

91 replies

AuntJane · 25/05/2016 12:43

Following on from the "mumtitlement" thread, I wonder what your views are on this, which happened in my office a year ago.

Work team where no more than two people are allowed to have leave at the same time, to provide cover.

Eight months in advance, childless female books a certain Thursday and Friday off. This is approved by the manager.

Two weeks in advance, childless devout Muslim female requests the Thursday off as it is Eid. She could not book the actual day any earlier because the actual date had not been declared.

On the same day, mother of two under 10's asks for the Thursday off on the grounds that her children's school has announced it will be closed for the day as over 50% of children (and a fair number of staff) will be celebrating Eid and whatever is done that day will need to be repeated.

Who gets the day off, and who doesn't?

OP posts:
SheHasAWildHeart · 25/05/2016 15:24

Perhaps I'm reading this wrong but dates for Eid seem to be available online years in advance?
No they don't. But even so that is irrelevant here.

t4gnut · 25/05/2016 15:30

Seem to be lots of different 'Eid al somethings' on the Islamic Calendar, and these seem to be on there for next few years at least. Fully accept there may be another Eid or two hiding out there.

But agree - first come first served and having kids you can't manage doesn't trump someone who booked 8 months in advance.

weeblueberry · 25/05/2016 15:34

I agree that the first requester should get theirs granted. Lots of places have a leave booking 'system' though so theoretically the other two might have come through at the same time.

About ten years ago, prekids, I worked in a job that was basically 365 days a year cover. It got to two weeks before Christmas and I realised no one had put in a request for Christmas Day off so asked and got it. Got some SEVERE backlash from my colleagues with kids who said they hadn't realised it was possible to request that day off and I was depriving them with a Christmas day with a parent. Hmm

wallybantersjunkbox · 25/05/2016 15:45

First person to book imho

EatsShitAndLeaves · 25/05/2016 15:57

It has to be first come, first served - even down to the minute in the case of the people who put their request in on the same day.

I run a large team (150+) and there is simply no other way to do it.

I do encourage people to be mindful about taking time off around "key" times of year if they don't need to, but ultimately it's not appropriate for me to weigh individual "need" based on a total minefield of cultural, religious, Heath, childcare cost reasons - the list is endless - because actually to do so could be perceived as discriminatory.

Ameliablue · 25/05/2016 15:57

First person to book, if the second and third requested at the same time, then it should be a random draw. As it isn't emergency child care cover, the mother doesn't have any priority. Depending on the work place policies, there may be something about religious observance taking priority.

WorkingItOutAsIGo · 25/05/2016 17:00

Actually the woman whose school announced it was closing for the day should be kicking up a storm and insisting they don't close as her children shouldn't be deprived of a day's education. That then solves the problem.

SoupDragon · 25/05/2016 17:08

First come first served. Personally I don't there's anythingwrong with checking that the others can't change but they shouldn't be put under any pressure whatsoever.

Don't the chilldren have another parent?

Junosmum · 25/05/2016 17:38

That's ridiculous about the school! My DH worked in a school where all 100% of the children were muslim. The school did not close for Eid. One year they had 3 children in the whole school.

The two who booked it off first should get it.

Andrewofgg · 25/05/2016 17:40

Depending on the work place policies, there may be something about religious observance taking priority.

There should not be - it would be discriminatory against those of other religions or of no religion.

Original poster
AuntJane · 25/05/2016 18:01

Ok, so as not to be accused of trolling I'll tell you what happened, but before I do ....

The leave system at the time required a paper sheet to be signed off by the manager. One person commuted into the office, completed the sheet and left it on the manager's desk pending her arrival. The other was working from home that day, so emailed the manager early (no commute) to ask her to put it on the sheet and sign it - so there wasn't a clear "first". And the school had closed both the previous two years, so the mother should have been expecting it.

So - the person who had booked eight months in advance was adked if she had "anything special" planned, but was not put under any pressure. The other two were told that they had both applied for it.

The mother 'phoned her husband, who got the day off work with no difficulty, so the Muslim woman git to celebrate Eid with her nieces and nephews.

OP posts:
whois · 25/05/2016 18:19

First come first served. No debate.

Andrewofgg · 25/05/2016 18:32

Happy ending Smile

But application by email only is safer because there can be no dead heats.

RiverTam · 25/05/2016 18:40

I'm going to allow myself a moment of feeling smug.

defunctedusername · 25/05/2016 18:59

First come first served. But as both tried to book on the same day I think its human for a good manager to make a judgement call. The mother has no choice, her children's school is closed. The muslim is choosing to celebrate eid. So the fairest option is to let the mother have the day off.

redskytonight · 25/05/2016 19:04

jeremycorbyn - but the mother did have a choice - read the OP's update!!

ProcrastinatorGeneral · 25/05/2016 19:08

The mother did have a choice Jeremy, the father of the children is a player in this too. Why is it always assumed the mother has to arrange fucking childcare?

Andrewofgg · 25/05/2016 20:50

ProcrastinatorGeneral As it happens this mother did indeed have a choice. But when father isn't in the picture and may not be in the area that is not always the case. Where it isn't that still does not give the mother a right to leave over somebody who applied first. Why that somebody wants leave is not important.

RiverTam · 25/05/2016 21:08

All parents who work have a choice to some extent, they have chosen to have children and to work, therefore it is up to them to ensure that they have emergency care in place.

It looks like what happened here is that with both these Eid-related requests coming on the same day the first thing that was done was that the childless woman who'd booked leave months ago was approached first - absolutely not on. The first thing should have been for the mother to see if anything else could be arranged, which it could, very easily (and I daresay the mother was pleased not to have to give up yet another day of her annual leave to emergency childcare). The woman who's religious day is was should have been approached second. The childless woman has bugger all to do with this situation.

But someone's choice to have children and work doesn't automatically trump someone's choice to follow a religion (who's major festivals are not covered by bank holidays) and work. We need to get out of the mindset that the automatic go-to parent in these situations is the mother. And we absolutely need to not assume that a childless person should be obliged to fit in around everyone else.

Muskateersmummy · 25/05/2016 21:12

For me, first come first served. But I would hope for some co operation amongst everyone. In my old place of work the two booking at the same time would be asked to work out which one of them would be off. If I was the childless woman with no specific plans I would have offered to switch my day off. But that's more because I think a bit of cooperation goes a long way.

ProcrastinatorGeneral · 25/05/2016 21:21

Andrew I never said the mother did need preference? My comment was purely aimed at the assumption Jeremy made, that only one parent in any given couple need be responsible for their child.

For what it's worth, I'm a single parent with little support that can be called on in an emergency. Ironically I'm unable to work at the moment because of being a carer for a disabled child. If I was in work, I wouldn't expect my circumstances to trump the office protocol, I'd hope that with a fortnight notice I'd manage to work something out.

SideOrderofChip · 25/05/2016 21:22

First come first served. DH applied for Christmas off this year and was originally told no because 3 other people had applied for it off. (i was really annoyed as one guy was the same every year and always first in and always got it off! But i digress). now someone has left the office dickhead who always booked christmas off DH got in ther ebefore anyone else and is now off for christmas. Just because we have kids doesn't trump other peoples needs nor does it stop me getting pissed off that DH has no oopmh to ask sooner

Pipbin · 25/05/2016 21:25

I have never heard a man referred to as "childless".
Quite - it's only ever women.

defunctedusername · 25/05/2016 22:05

The mother didn't have a choice, her children's school was closed against her will. She had to organise her DH to have a day off.

The muslim did have a choice in respect to how she celebrated eid with no further consequences.

Does no one see the irony of living in a christian country and being forced to take a day off work because its a muslim holiday.

RiverTam · 25/05/2016 22:12

'She had to organise her DH to have a day off'

Yes, because God forbid a man should be expected to step up in an emergency (that had happened in the previous two years) Hmm.

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