to complain that DD had an Empire Day theme at Rainbows?

[DancesWithTimMinchin]

DH is from a former colony. We don't think celebrating our history of colonisation is appropriate or inclusive. When we complained, the people who organise the Rainbow's didn't think there was anything inappropriate about celebrating Empire Day as a theme for a history-based afternoon.

AWBU?

Bombay has it spot on I would say. Another Brownie leader here and I would want to know if a parent was really offended by a session I ran. I wonder though if they were just using it as an excuse to run something 'British' without thinking it through properly! Btw I read the Daily Mail and just don't get why that makes me a bad person..... I can still form my own views but don't have time for the Telegraph and am not hairy enough for the Guardian!

"I can still form my own views but don't have time for the Telegraph and am not hairy enough for the Guardian!"

Gosh. Let's hope you don't run any Brazilian themed events to coincide it's the Olympics.....the Brownies might get a bit of a shock.........

Maybe you ought to have spoke up before the session?

I think unfortunately some leaders will be more able or worldly wise than others. Getting the district commissioner to have a quiet word is fine, offering to do a session looking at your DHs country would be better.

Reading threads like this makes me resolute that I will never be a guiding leader again!

I think it's out of order and, volunteers or not, I'd be raising objections.

I actually came on to say 'fine as long as it's treated as history and talked about carefully', but reading the update where it was called Celebrating Empire Day, and they dressed up as royalty and had a party, , I changed my mind!

PS from the thread title I assumed you meant Empire the TV show – you know, the music biz one full of posturing rappers and writhing young women.

"Getting the district commissioner to have a quiet word is fine, offering to do a session looking at your DHs country would be better."

Both would be the way forward.

The District Commissioner definitely should be told- it is such a bizarre thing to do. It's not as if the leaders could have remembered jolly Empire Day parties from their own childhoods.........

There are some terribly ignorant racists on this thread.

Those of you who have said that the OP's DH having a quiet and perfectly polite word with the Rainbow leader would make you feel uncomfortable to be mixed race or never want to be a guide leader again - are you really that sensitive to gently-delivered criticism? Really?

This thread has got me thinking about Empire biscuits. Wondering now whether they ought to be renamed/rebranded.

I can only assume the people who think this is okay have no idea of the atrocities committed by the British Empire.

For those who think that it was okay to celebrate empire day maybe have a read about some of attrocities committed by the empire and consider whether it is really so different from celebrations slavery/ Naxis etc.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/worst-atrocities-british-empire-amritsar-boer-war-concentration-camp-mau-mau-a6821756.html

listverse.com/2014/02/04/10-evil-crimes-of-the-british-empire/

Guess this is one Rainbows leader that won't be nominated for an MBE then.

I agree with you totally op. The idea of celebrating it is wrong imo and the volunteer aspect irrelevant.

Some questionable opinions on this thread.

Are schools etc allowed to run Cowboys and Indians themed activities?

I don't think anyone who is against this activity would object to children learning about these historical events though (in a non celebratory way).

There is a difference between celebrating and learning.

If they want kids to come in dressed as royals and generals. What will the people from the empire come dressed as ?

Slaves from Africa with chains round their knock and feet, people in concentration comps in Africa, Asia, America both south and north, Australia (aboriginal heads on a stick or will one of them have a head to bring back as a trophy to show others), the native Americans being slaughtered with the intention of cleansing the whole race, dress as a Royal and have a slave carry minerals they have just looted, the countries being rinsed of resources with no benefits for its nations, go in like a generals with lots of armies to round up all the savages, carry a map with them and sit around drawing lines and claiming it's theirs ( the kingdoms that belonged to the barbaric savages does not matter, does it) . Maybe, the kids can come in dressed as some of the people displayed in the human zoo in London. Strip them off any dignity because they are subhuman. Maybe come in dressed like missionary and kill anyone who does not convert to Christianity while demonising all of the traditional religions of the natives across the globe. Maybe come in dressed like a plantation owner with a written book describing why it's ok to own slaves. How about come in like a colonial traveller ready to learn grab by shooting every on the land he wants.

Those who support the empire tell me how all of that is acceptable.

What a lot of crap to say that they were offering democracy when in actual fact they wanted to inset their dominance like they are still trying to do today. what they did to tribes and groups of people who tried uprising during different rebellions in the history of the empire is a disgrace.

Sometimes people don't like to know the dark side of history. Let's focus on what we did for the savages and how we made them more civilised. Without us they would be nothing.

That would be a wonderful celebration party.

Our kids are descended form people who were oppressed by the British Empire

I'd say most people are, unless their families were wealthy in the 19th century. If you were poor in the UK, you had little to gain from Empire (other than the possibility of emigrating and maybe doing a bit better overseas).

However, it does sound very strange indeed. The Empire disappeared a long time ago now. Commonwealth Day I could understand. Was it "celebrating" it or "commemorating" it? There's a difference.

I honestly can't believe this actually happened.

YANBU. What exactly did the leaders say when you had a word? How was it left afterwards?

At the age of five, in an hour or so outside of school, I really don't think they will have internalised much about the politics or values of the former British Empire.

They will have enjoyed dressing up and will probably never ever think or hear about it again.

When I was a Rainbow leader I definitely didn't feel I had any responsibility to educate or inform the children on the context of historical events, we just tried to have fun with them and be nice. I used to pick random themes like woodland, recycling, safari, music, purple, ocean, dinosaurs.... we didn't go into any detail whatsoever, we just themed the songs/games/craft/colouring around it to try and keep it interesting.

My grandma left school at 12 and worked in a cotton mill she used to have to crawl under a moving loom for a few pennies extra. My dad said people used to live in the caves above the pit in Wales where he lived. Life was shit if you were not one of the rich who benefited from the empire. Also I've never heard of anyone celebrating empire day, ever

As a white person citizen/native within the empire you benefitted by default. You were shit dirt poor with all the problems that bought but it meant that you were safe and never rounded up to be sent off to another country to work for others for nothing, or have your culture and identity torn from you or be punished for speaking in your native language, or deliberately be starved to death, or see your children murdered, or have your property and resources seized. You were dirt poor yes, with little direct benefit from the empire but indirectly you had it far way better than peoples which the empire ruled over.
Anyway. OP YANBU at all. Half my family come from slave ancestors. Its history no doubt but we make no mistake that there is nothing to celebrate about it.

YANBU and I am shocked at some of the attitudes on this thread!

I learned about the Empire in a London school in the 1980's and 90's, which in a nutshell means I learned about colonialism without ever managing to put a negative spin on Britain, which is probably why a lot of people on this thread cannot see a problem with the event. They are brainwashed. We live in a former colony now, not a British one but in history my children learn about European colonisation from a very different point of view and with a lot more detail. You cannot educate children about history if the history you teach them is biased.

The BBC bitesize sums up the lack of education British children experience, see for example:
British people thought that they were doing the world a favour by taking the British, government and Christianity to the rest of the world, ending slavery and barbaric traditions, bringing 'civilisation' and an international 'Pax Britannica', or 'British peace'.
It hardly paints Britain in a bad light at all. thought that they were doing the world a favour did they fuck, they wanted land and riches and the countries they stole had both of those things. They tried to justify what they did by claiming that the people in those countries were less "human" than they were so therefore they were justified in stealing because they could "educate" the "barbarians"!

The OP is not overreacting at all, this is one twisted celebration that I would complain about as well.

YANBU. Oh god I moved to east anglia years ago and have never met so many racist, mysoginistic and bigoted people in my life. It really is the arse end of nowhere and I live near cambridge where you would think people were used to different nationalities. Cannot wait to move back north when I retire!

YABU - it's history. FWIW I am half White British and Half West Indian, slave owners on one side, slaves on the other. The British Empire existed, it' legacy lives on, good and bad. There were European colonial systems much worse than ours.

If you don't like it, leave the group - I bet there is a waiting list.