to complain that DD had an Empire Day theme at Rainbows?

[DancesWithTimMinchin]

DH is from a former colony. We don't think celebrating our history of colonisation is appropriate or inclusive. When we complained, the people who organise the Rainbow's didn't think there was anything inappropriate about celebrating Empire Day as a theme for a history-based afternoon.

AWBU?

its legacy lives on, good and bad

Absolutely. The problem here is there was no attempt to engage with the negative side of it; it was just dressing up as British royalty for a party.

Its legacy lives on in the shape of the Commonwealth.

Empire Day belongs in the 1950s.

RhiWrites - but they were learning about it from a historical point of view.

There were European colonial systems much worse than ours.

Being a rapist and saying "at least I didn't kill anyone" does not make being a rapist any better.

Read the thread, as many have pointed out there is a massive difference between educating children about history and celebrating that history. The OP is not complaining that the children learn about the Empire she is objecting to the celebration of it.

If a group is responsible in part for the education and development of impressionable young girls and they do something wrong, then leaving the group is not a great idea. It is much better if the OP educates them about why celebrating the Empire is not a very good thing to do. It doesn't matter where a child desends from, they deserve to be educated well and not brainwashed by ignorance.

RhiWrites - but they were learning about it from a historical point of view.

They were dressing up as royalty and having a tea party. Do you really consider that learning about the Empire from a historical POV?

RhiWrites - well, yes, it's linked to Queen Victoria's Birthday, and people marked it with tea parties. They're only 6, do you expect a history seminar?

So by rights it should not have been called "Empire Day", they could have called it "Queen Victoria's birthday" and learned a little bit about what toys Victorian children played with or something. The problem was that they called it "Empire Day" and dressed up as Royalty. Can you not see that would teach a 5-7 year old that the Empire was a thing to be celebrated and does that really not seem wrong to you?

*dizzytomato" - no, it does not. People can celebrate it if they want, lots about it to celebrate. Plenty of time to gain a broader view when they are older, the children had fun, Mumsnet can be such a trendy liberal echo chamber! What usually happens is that I am told that I am a poor little ethnic who does not realise how offended I should be!

Blimey - I'd be a bit agape if any group DD was involved in did a 'Celebrating Empire Day' - my Dad's in his mid-eighties and has talked to me about the attitudes of the time on the BE - but I thought poring over the pink bits on the map was something that belonged with his generation and firmly in the past. To most little kids of his day, it was simply an opportunity to wave a flag, have a parade and a bit of time off lessons, nothing more sinister than that. For what it's worth, plenty of people (teachers, parents and others) complained in the pre-war period about Empire Day - some parents refused to let their children participate and some teachers used it as an opportunity to explain to their pupils what 'Empire' truly entailed.

I think that last point is key, really. It seems a bit bonkers to have to do it in 2016,but I suppose it's an opportunity to discuss it with the volunteers and make productive suggestions as to alternatives next time - possibly a Commonwealth event.

This thread is having a rather poor effect on my blood pressure. I can, as others have said, see how an Empire Day party might come about. It is extremely thoughtless, but as another person who learned nothing balanced about the BE at school, it's easy to be unaware of the implications of certain things.

That said, the leader's response should have been, "Gosh, we didn't think about it from that perspective. You're right, it was insensitive and I apologise. We certainly won't be doing it again!"

As for many posters on this thread, did you not RTFT, are you woefully and deliberately ignorant, or just fucking bigots?

trendy liberal echo chamber

a) I'm very happy to be called a liberal, if being a liberal means finding a one-sided view of Empire unsavoury.

b) hardly an echo chamber. There are lots of different viewpoints on MN, robustly expressed.

I always find it interesting listening to this song below and how proudly British people sing it. Rule Britannia in praise of the empower ironic how they didn't mind enslaving others.
1
When Britain first, at Heaven's command
Arose from out the azure main;
This was the charter of the land,
And guardian angels sang this strain:
"Rule, Britannia! rule the waves:
"Britons never will be slaves."
2
The nations, not so blest as thee,
Must, in their turns, to tyrants fall;
While thou shalt flourish great and free,
The dread and envy of them all.
"Rule, Britannia! rule the waves:
"Britons never will be slaves."
3
Still more majestic shalt thou rise,
More dreadful, from each foreign stroke;
As the loud blast that tears the skies,
Serves but to root thy native oak.
"Rule, Britannia! rule the waves:
"Britons never will be slaves."
4
Thee haughty tyrants ne'er shall tame:
All their attempts to bend thee down,
Will but arouse thy generous flame;
But work their woe, and thy renown.
"Rule, Britannia! rule the waves:
"Britons never will be slaves."
5
To thee belongs the rural reign;
Thy cities shall with commerce shine:
All thine shall be the subject main,
And every shore it circles thine.
"Rule, Britannia! rule the waves:
"Britons never will be slaves."
6
The Muses, still with freedom found,
Shall to thy happy coast repair;
Blest Isle! With matchless beauty crown'd,
And manly hearts to guard the fair.
"Rule, Britannia! rule the waves:
"Britons never will be slaves."

The problem is that children brought up in an insular environment don't gain a broader point of view when they're older. Have you heard of the saying "give me a child until he is eight and I will show you the man"?

You are entitled to your point of view but it's not the only one and many of us (including those who are mixed race) find celebrating Empire problematic.

Yes, people are more liberal now and a damn good thing. In the days of Empire you and I would have been told our views didn't matter because of our skin tone. Can't understand what you want to celebrate in that.

YANBU

this wilful ignorance drives me fucking mental. we live in a time where you carry a supercomputer in your pocket, and a world of knowledge is literally at your fingertips. trying to excuse this with weaksauce 'ohh they didn't know, poor young people' is at best unpleasant and at worse encourages polarisation and offensive 'misunderstandings'.

and get off my lawn.

Goodness OP YANBU at all. That's shocking and I am aghast at how dismissive many on this thread have been. Some people need to read a little history.

*worst

Are people responsible for what their ancestors did

Are people responsible for what their ancestors did

No, not at all. What's that got to do with the thread?

24 May used to be called Empire Day. I remember standing around in the Infants' School playground with a Union Jack chanting

The twenty fourth of May
Empire Day
If you don't give us a holiday
We'll all go away!

That's part of our history, love it or loathe it, but don't try to bury it.

The British Empire spanned almost 500 years from start to finish and covered a quarter of the globe at its widest extent. I am sure you can find something positive to celebrate somewhere in that.
You might start with the global scouting network established by Baden Powell one of the great colonialists and of which Rainbows is a part.

YABVU.

sonlypuppyfat our current society was built on the backs of those abuses and we benefit from them every day. Not responsible, but imbricated. And certainly should not be celebrating them.

If you don't like it don't send your child. i so need an eye roll smiley

Its history. Will you complain about items of history schools teach eventually?

Side, it's not really history if it's presented one-sidedly and without any context.

Wow, apparently lots of people on mumsnet are racist and stupid.

I wish I were surprised.

Andrewofgg I feel very sorry for those who love it. And the OP never said anything about burying. I imagine she would be all for intelligent, honest discussion of the empire. Not a fucking party about it.

Drinkstoomuchcoffee there are excellent things to celebrate about that period yes. I for one am a big fan of the poetic works of Samuel Taylor Coleridge. I don't, however, choose to celebrate the fact that he lived as part of a racist, imperialist, often brutal regime. Doesn't mean his poetry isn't great, but it's not an excuse to celebrate slavery and slaughter and other things done in the name of empire.

As for Baden Powell the great colonialist...well done for dragging the Scouting movement back a hundred years.