to complain that DD had an Empire Day theme at Rainbows?

[DancesWithTimMinchin]

DH is from a former colony. We don't think celebrating our history of colonisation is appropriate or inclusive. When we complained, the people who organise the Rainbow's didn't think there was anything inappropriate about celebrating Empire Day as a theme for a history-based afternoon.

AWBU?

"Some people like the idea that children should grow up thinking they've been born in some sort of political/cultural year zero, where we censor the past. Perhaps we should put a huge banner in front of schools declaring "trigger warning: you may learn something today that makes you feel slightly uncomfortable" ?"
There is rather a difference between learning about the empire in schools and a group of 6 year olds waving Union flags and celebrating the "all red route!"

to be honest i cant see the problem its part of our history and if the theme was about history then fine . in the cubs we always done things on our history and other folks .we celebrated xmas diwalli ramadan eide .all sorts even although all the kids were actually christians .we had a day at the mosque . we also spoke about slavery and why that is so wrong .they probably should have just discussed empire day rather than celebrated it .but its hard going trying to think of something to do every week .

There is every difference in the world between celebrating a non- Christian religious festival and celebrating something which lead to the deaths of millions.

I'm on your side on this one, OP. I don't really care if the leaders are volunteers, it's just Rainbows etc. If a child of mine wound up thinking fucking colonisation was a good thing I'd be raging.

But then I did do my PhD (in part) on post-colonialism so I really, really don't see anything remotely innocent about it.

Yes. Don't send her if you think it's that inappropriate. The leaders are volunteers
this with bells on

If you don't send her and don't talk to the leaders they will never know that they did something inappropriate and the other girls will continue to suffer.
I'm a Guider and hope you get a good response, preferably massively apologetic, from the leaders.
If you don't, have a word with the District Commissioner. Her name is on the Starting Rainbows form.

There is every difference in the world between celebrating a non- Christian religious festival and celebrating something which lead to the deaths of millions

Glad it's not just me who didn't get that!

I have to say, I didn't learn about the British empire in formal education until I did a history degree three years ago and picked a module which focused on it. At school we learnt that we had the biggest empire in the world and that stuff, but the realities and the horrors were never discussed.

There's some amazing depth of ignorance on this thread.

I agree that the volunteers shared that ignorance rather than thought "oh lets have a lovely celebration of atrocity" but that's a reason to make sure they are made aware.

To the people saying it's a part of the history that's true. So would you think some volunteers doing a Celebrate Slavery day was OK?

""to be honest i cant see the problem its part of our history ""

It was renamed in the 50's as Commonwealth day and this year, ironically, the theme is 'Inculsiveness'.

It's a part of history, that shaped the world, as Pogroms or using slave labour was. It shouldn't be the theme of a day of celebration.

The Volunteerers have made a mistake, or are deliberately pushing their views.

Just because you are a volunteer, it doesn't mean that you can just do what ever you want, especially when working with children.

Does anyone else feel that maybe the world, has gone bloody mad?

It may not be the glorious, and amazing. But it's history, and I personally thing reaching out children that they don't have to deal with things they don't like is setting them up to fail in life when they don't go to work cause they don't want to then don't get paid.

History isn't pretty! But your being a little sensitive. Your people are not being oppressed now. If you didn't want your child/ren to participate you shouldn't have sent them.

But part of educational experiences is you learn about all the sides.

OP, I volunteer working with the public, in a historical setting. We are expected to work to the same values and standards as paid staff on stuff like this (and H and S/safeguarding, etc - obviously our roles are more limited). This wasn't history, properly taught with sources, consideration of different points of view, and context. Which would have been inappropriate for this age group anyway. I think a celebration of Empire would be inappropriate whatever the audience, by the way.

I've just had a look at BBC Bitesize and for their Key Stage 3 information, they don't mention any atrocities. They do say this:

^Attitudes of Empire
Britain regarded itself as 'ruler of the waves'. The songs 'Rule Britannia' and 'Land of Hope and Glory' show this.

British people thought that they were doing the world a favour by taking the British, government and Christianity to the rest of the world, ending slavery and barbaric traditions, bringing 'civilisation' and an international 'Pax Britannica', or 'British peace'.^

Op I would explain to the leaders how you and your Dh felt/feel about the celebration of empire day so they can be educated about why it was offensive and inappropriate.

I completely disagree with pps saying you shouldn't complain just because the leaders are volunteers. I have a huge appreciation for all volunteers in similar settings but that doesn't mean they should never be challenged or educated.

I would hope they would be happy to receive the feedback and be mortified that they did not properly consider the wider issues surrounding British history as an empire.

This thread is bizarre. I'm trying to work out if everyone defending Empire Day is empathising with a harassed brownie leader trying to think of activities or if mumsnet is actually full of white supremacists!

Comments like "it's part of our history" are particularly troubling. British history involves all sorts of shameful things that shouldn't be celebrated.

How about slavery? Shall we have half the class be spaces and the others order them about? It's part of our history!
Concentration camp day, did you know the Britsih invented them? Let's think of some fun activities to celebrate our history!
Witch burnings! The sinking of the Belgrano! The bombing of Dresden!

OP, write a letter to follow up and see how they respond. But if, like some mumsnetters, the brownie leaders see nothing wrong then remove your daughter.

I mention the empire to my children in the context of queen Victoria...and the commonwealth. To be honest it has helped give positive associations to people from those countries and a sense of belonging, family.

Particularly in this age of political unrest, with immigration, anything which helps my children look on others children positively is a good thing. My children are growing up in a white mono cultural area: there is one mixed race child in their school. They are very suspicious of difference.

They probably did learning about, rather than as billed, celebrating.

There are dark sides to lots if things, do you celebrate medical advances for example? Blooming dark side to that. But you do have science festivals doing just that. I think a better word would have been explore or talk about...

This year GGUK are celebrating 100 years of the Senior Section (what was rangers and now includes young leaders too) with a challenge called 'Mission Spectacular' which is for all sections (including Rainbows). While the Empire isn't mentioned at all in the syllabus ideas we have all been encouraged to dig into the history of guiding and use these resources to do some more unusual activities with the girls. It may be that this is what the Rainbow leaders have done: tagged onto the first Guiding handbook (which was called 'How Girls can help to build up the Empire') and tied this with the Queen's 90th Birthday (for which there is a badge). It isn't appropriate, and you did the right thing to point it out, but I don't think it's worth going into full offended mode over unless the activities were inappropriate in some way...which it doesn't sound as if they were.
If you are really concerned and the Leaders haven't taken you seriously then go to the District Commissioner. They will have a word.

NOBODY HAS CELEBRATED EMPIRE DAY OUTSIDE A MUSEUM SINCE 1958!!!!!!!!!!!!!'

I can see how it happened. I expect it was a retro victorian tea party type night - a bit like those 'street party' celebrations. Tbh raising concerns before the event rather than after would have been more sensible. I would raise it with the local head as otherwise it will stay on the programme forever and you'll be doing it again next year. Commonwealth Day sounds a really fun activity. Yanbu but i expect it is all part of living in east anglia.

Of course it's racist and the OP has every right to point that out to the leaders whether they're volunteers or not.

I guess the influx of Daily Mail readers is to blame for the whole can't be bothered to think outside the ra ra isn't Britain great box.

I suspect that many people these days don't understand about the Empire's dark side for the very reason that it hasn't been taught at all because of being shameful, and therefore they don't know what they don't know. If the leaders are guilty of no more than ignorance, they will surely be mortified by knowing that they made OP's family uncomfortable and will learn. Given that most Guiding volunteers IME are very public spirited and decent people, I reckon this is the most likely outcome. If they did know they might cause upset and did it anyway, then obviously they deserve to be called out on it. Surely either way the best plan is to talk to them about it?

OP YADefiniteltNBU!

Were the activities inappropriate?

I agree absolutely 100% with what Bombayflambe just said. If you're not happy with the response from the leaders, speak to the District or Division Commissioner.