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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to complain that DD had an Empire Day theme at Rainbows?

449 replies

DancesWithTimMinchin · 24/05/2016 21:54

DH is from a former colony. We don't think celebrating our history of colonisation is appropriate or inclusive. When we complained, the people who organise the Rainbow's didn't think there was anything inappropriate about celebrating Empire Day as a theme for a history-based afternoon.

AWBU?

OP posts:
DotForShort · 25/05/2016 07:37

YANBU. Celebrating the British empire? That is a shocking theme. I can only presume the leaders were utterly ignorant of history. I would certainly have a word with them. Despite their volunteer status and (presumably) good intentions, they ought to know how wildly inappropriate such a celebration is.

Some of the posts on this thread are appalling and depressing in equal measure.

Original poster
DancesWithTimMinchin · 25/05/2016 07:39

PirateSmile All we are after is that this theme not be used again. I don't want an apology, or even for this to be communicated to us, we were lust letting them know.

The point of this post is to see if we were being unreasonable. And it appears that about 50% of people the enlightened 50% agree and 50% the 50% ignorant of the fact that the British Empire invented concentration camps and starved millions of natives to death disagree.

OP posts:
UpWithPup · 25/05/2016 07:42

as a person from a former colony, and therefore DD is descended from people from a former colony, he finds a celebration of Empire Day non-inclusive and inappropriate

So after your husband said this, what was the leaders reaction? Also, when did this conversation take place?

DotForShort · 25/05/2016 07:43

"Slightly unpleasant associations"? Are you serious, 2ManySweets?

Chewbecca · 25/05/2016 07:43

learning about the empire is important
celebrating the empire is not appropriate

Theydontknowweknowtheyknow · 25/05/2016 07:43

YANBU OP. You did the right thing. No one's asking for the Brits to get on their knees and beg forgiveness but the lack of acknowledgement in this country of the negative side of the British Empire is astounding.

Brokenbiscuit · 25/05/2016 07:43

I think your DH was right to point out how inappropriate this was, OP. I was withholding judgment initially as I thought that the idea might have been to educate the children about the impact of the British Empire, but if they were "celebrating", that's quite offensive. My DH is also from a former colony and neither he nor I would be happy with dd attending a session like you describe.

It makes no difference that the rainbow leaders are volunteers. If you work with young people, you have a duty to think about the messages that you're giving them. Celebrating the oppression and exploitation of millions of people is not a message that I find acceptable.

escapedfrommordor · 25/05/2016 07:44

People like OP make me feel uncomfortable being mixed race. I promise we're not all hysterical.

Brokenbiscuit · 25/05/2016 07:45

In what way is OP being hysterical, escaped?

MuddhaOfSuburbia · 25/05/2016 07:46

Some of the posts on this thread are appalling and depressing in equal measure.

This

This thread would have been v different, say, five years ago

So depressing

OP I know the only way things will change is by questioning and challenging them BUT if you find it exhausting (and I'm afraid I would) do try the woodcraft folk. I have NOTHING but praise for the organisation and the volunteers. They are fucking wonderful

PirateSmile · 25/05/2016 07:46

Wow OP. That's an incredibly patronising post. I think most people understand the connotations of the Empire and the impact it had in those countries we ruled. You have to put it in the context of the times and appreciate nobody in their right minds would want to go back to that. The more nuanced point you are missing is that these volunteers clearly made a mistake and you are likely to have made them think about it. Now it's up to you to decide whether to continue with Rainbows for your dd or move on.

fastdaytears · 25/05/2016 07:50

OP I know the only way things will change is by questioning and challenging them BUT if you find it exhausting (and I'm afraid I would) do try the woodcraft folk. I have NOTHING but praise for the organisation and the volunteers. They are fucking wonderful

As with Guiding (and presumably scouting) the Woodcraft Folk vary hugely depending on where you are and what volunteers come forward. You would not find them fucking wonderful if you lived near me I promise you! But pleased it's better in your area.

actyouragenotyourshoesize · 25/05/2016 07:53

I think the situation is as others have posted - leaders were planning a the terms activities, spotted a date in a diary and planned an evening around it. They just haven't thought through implications of "celebrating" Empire Day and probably only thought as far as what do 5&6 year old girls and Victorians like doing - dressing up and tea parties!. I am sure they would be mortified that they have failed to take into account the wider historical significance of the date and a quiet word after the next meeting could gently point this out and stop a repeat performance under the same theme next year. It may also give the leaders the opportunity to redress the balance and revisit the "Empire" explaining more about it at a later meeting - 5 & 6 years olds are not to young to understand if explained in an age appropriate way.

lionheart · 25/05/2016 07:53

The OP is not hysterical.

ParadiseCity · 25/05/2016 07:53

I agree with what Chewbacca says

learning about the empire is important
celebrating the empire is not appropriate

But I'm sorry I cried laughing at 'Where do you live?'... 'East Anglia' - I don't know why but it really tickled me.

2ManySweets · 25/05/2016 07:55

Thanks to those who responded to my post.

My overall message remains: Empire is an outdated concept with negative association and was an unwise choice on the part of the play leader.

Whipping the "OMG HITLER" card out is really daft. Any fool knows that.

OP: the only person wearing judgey pants here is you. Get a grip and think about just how shit you're going to make [x] amount of well-meaning folk feel because of your feelings on the issue.

In the words of Elsa (or was it Anna) - "let it go"....

fastdaytears · 25/05/2016 07:55

The OP is not hysterical. I can see as a Guider what went wrong here and a quiet word is all that is needed. Which as far as I can see is all the OP is suggesting doing anyway.

I very much doubt it'll be repeated anyway but this will make sure it's not.

Given how they spent the evening, I don't think there was any intention to be offensive- just a lack of thought/proper research.

multivac · 25/05/2016 07:56

They weren't 'mortified', though, actyourage. After it was politely pointed out to them, they still saw 'nothing inappropriate' about it.

oliviaclottedcream · 25/05/2016 07:57

The British Empire is an extremly important part of world history and international development that needs to be learned about, discussed and evaluated by future generations IMO. The bad and the good.

Some people like the idea that children should grow up thinking they've been born in some sort of political/cultural year zero, where we censor the past. Perhaps we should put a huge banner in front of schools declaring "trigger warning: you may learn something today that makes you feel slightly uncomfortable" ?

fastdaytears · 25/05/2016 07:57

I'm sure if they go away and read about it then they'll understand. Or they're a bit thick. Some people are...

WeiAnMeokEo · 25/05/2016 07:57

You and your husband totally did the right thing. My husband is also from a former colony and even without having witnessed the scars it has on him and his family to this day, I'd be angry and upset about this.

Also, my experience of British history classes was that we were taught absolutely nothing about the Empire, so I can see how a lot of people don't grasp why this is so horrifying - including the volunteers who ran the event. It's just really sad and frustrating that pointing out the issues leads to such defensiveness: no one is attacking the good work of the volunteers, least of all your husband who sounds like he was incredibly reasonable when he spoke to them! But it's insidious things like this that perpetuate a racist society and we owe it to ourselves and out children to call them out when we experience them.

fastdaytears · 25/05/2016 07:59

Actually Wei has a point. I only did history to GCSE but there was nothing at all about the empire so it is possible that they are just really ill informed. Tons about slavery and WWII but the syllabus was totally devoid of empire. These leaders may need a chance to go away and educate themselves

multivac · 25/05/2016 08:01

olivia Perhaps if children were taught this stuff a little more effectively, they wouldn't grow up to be Rainbow leaders who organise inappropriate 'celebrations' and then refuse to accept that they may have made a bad call?

Just a thought.

fastdaytears · 25/05/2016 08:02

Being taught it at all would be a start!

I'm pretty old though so curriculum might have changed.

fastdaytears · 25/05/2016 08:03

Anyone else worrying that Rainbows will be awkward after half term if the Daily Mail print this thread.

Though maybe the leaders will learn.

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