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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to complain that DD had an Empire Day theme at Rainbows?

449 replies

DancesWithTimMinchin · 24/05/2016 21:54

DH is from a former colony. We don't think celebrating our history of colonisation is appropriate or inclusive. When we complained, the people who organise the Rainbow's didn't think there was anything inappropriate about celebrating Empire Day as a theme for a history-based afternoon.

AWBU?

OP posts:
2ManySweets · 26/05/2016 10:16

13 pages in and Up With Pup nails it (IMHO).

derxa · 26/05/2016 10:18

13 pages in and Up With Pup nails it (IMHO). Yes but some people will still see the Rainbow leader as a racist harridan dressed in jackboots.

ephemeralfairy · 26/05/2016 10:23

OP YANBU.
I'm a volunteer (not with kids) and have been on numerous courses regarding diversity awareness/how not to be a colonialist twat.
I'm staggered at how many people think this is OK.

2ManySweets · 26/05/2016 10:23

I know, I know. My feelings on the whole thing appear up thread so no further tuppence worth from me except I'm so glad my child will never be schooled in E Anglia

BertrandRussell · 26/05/2016 10:43

"Yes but some people will still see the Rainbow leader as a racist harridan dressed in jackboots."

No. I see her as someone who has screwed up in a way that is (to put it mildly) rather surprising, and who must not be put in the position of screwing up the same way next year.

gotthemoononastick · 26/05/2016 10:45

What an unforeseen unfortunate event!

Depending on where the OP's husband hails from,had he perhaps not realised what the child had signed up for?

Boy Scout / Guide movement is deeply hated by some who well know the ' British jackboot' and live next door to those who still revere the 'last bastion' These are the last Europeans left in some post independence countries,so no black/white issue.
Some countries have banned it. Some countries have bigger survival fish to fry now,so it has petered out anyway.Some countries love the military connotation of uniforms and badges and have embraced it.

fastdaytears · 26/05/2016 10:52

There are countries who have banned Guiding? Which ones?

Couldn't be anything less military than my Guide group. They like marshmallow fluff and want a bouncy castle for the end of term. And their uniform is a polo shirt when they remember it.

derxa · 26/05/2016 11:06

No. I see her as someone who has screwed up in a way that is (to put it mildly) rather surprising, and who must not be put in the position of screwing up the same way next year. Yes she has screwed up and hopefully will not do this again. However some posters are determined to see evil where there is only ignorance.

budgiegirl · 26/05/2016 11:17

I agree that the leader screwed up, but to be honest, I don't think it's particularly surprising. She probably quickly googled Empire Day, saw that it was a celebratory day in the past, and recreated it for the rainbows. She clearly didn't realise the full impact of this, and the offence it may cause. She may never have heard of Empire Day before, or understand the fact that it was inappropriate. She was just trying to do something fun for the girls. As she does week in, week out.

However 0P, whether you were unreasonable depends on whether you knew the title 'Celebrating Empire Day' in advance. If you didn't, then you were NBU to mention after that it wasn't appropriate.

If you knew in advance, then you would not be unreasonable to mention it in advance, and not send your child on that evening. But if you knew in advance, you sent your child anyway, and your DH mentioned it afterwards, then YABU.

It's not clear from your posts which of these it was.

SapphireStrange · 26/05/2016 11:21

I think the leader's a bit thick if she didn't realise the baggage around issues of the British Empire, TBH. I wouldn't want someone displaying that ignorance 'leading' any child of mine.

SoupDragon · 26/05/2016 11:27

I think the leader's a bit thick if she didn't realise the baggage around issues of the British Empire, TBH.

Oh it must be wonderful to be as knowledgeable and perfect as you.

ephemeralfairy · 26/05/2016 11:34

She clearly didn't realise the full impact of this, and the offence it may cause. She may never have heard of Empire Day before, or understand the fact that it was inappropriate. She was just trying to do something fun for the girls. As she does week in, week out.

I agree that this is probably the case, but she needs more support from those higher up in the organisation. Maybe that's where OP's (in my opinion completely justifiable) complaints should be directed? As PP have said, when young children are involved there is a need for strict policies, training and accountability at all levels.

And yes, she probably is ignorant rather than evil; but ignorance is dangerous.

SapphireStrange · 26/05/2016 11:34

I don't think I'm especially knowledgeable. I certainly don't think I'm perfect (why is it such a common response, if someone ventures any criticism or claims any knowledge at all, to accuse the person of thinking they're perfect?)

I don't think you have to be perfect to have a bit of knowledge of the British Empire.

I also think if you're in a position of responsibility with children, you should be equipped with some basic knowledge and/or the common sense, on googling 'Empire Day' and seeing Queen Victoria having a party or whatever, to stop and think a little bit about the wider context.

BertrandRussell · 26/05/2016 11:36

"Oh it must be wonderful to be as knowledgeable and perfect as you."

Well it is quite nice to have a very basic understanding of the history of the country I live in, yes!

fastdaytears · 26/05/2016 11:36

I promise I'm not thick! More professional qualifications and degrees than I can list without looking like a twat and I didn't know much at all about the horrible stuff done until I read this thread and started googling. It's not taught at school and the Wikipedia page (which let's be honest is where this leader will have gone to) has nothing about the controversy of celebrating.

It's not just this lady who's ignorant about the issues. It's not actually general knowledge in the way that slavery etc is.

budgiegirl · 26/05/2016 12:04

I think the leader's a bit thick if she didn't realise the baggage around issues of the British Empire, TBH

Charming ! She may be very knowledgeable about lots of things, just this is something that has escaped her. It does for lots of people, it's not taught in schools as a matter of course (as far as I know).

She made a mistake. It's whether that mistake is repeated that is the important thing. And the OP still hasn't answered about when her DH spoke to the leader about it, before or after the event?

BertrandRussell · 26/05/2016 12:17

"Oh it must be wonderful to be as knowledgeable and perfect as you" I am so tempted to lout my fingers to my ears and go "Nyanya- nanya!"

EveryoneElsie · 26/05/2016 12:18

Were they pretending to be Victorian? Otherwise its an odd thing to do.

SapphireStrange · 26/05/2016 12:30

budgie, if you're introducing something to a group of children it shouldn't 'escape' you. You should make sure you know a bit about it. And since when was the only way to know or find out anything being taught it in school? Confused

ephemeralfairy · 26/05/2016 12:38

And since when was the only way to know or find out anything being taught it in school?

Exactly. If you can Google to find 'Empire Day', then you can Google to find out other stuff.

vikingorigins · 26/05/2016 12:45

Commonwealth day is in March, so they couldn't have changed it to that.

Queen Victoria's birthday celebrations?

wigornian · 26/05/2016 12:57

dizzytomato

Really? I never said it was "all good" - but if you can't think of anything worth celebrating then you're pretty dim. Just look at those parts of the world that are former Belgian or French colonies, and compare them to many countries in the Commonwealth today?

Rule of Law, liberal democracy, respect for human rights, trial by jury - nothing to celebrate? I repeat I am by no means saying there are not many things that were done during the height of the Empire that we would condone now. But there are positive aspects - and certainly for a 6 year old having a bit of fun, I can't see the problem.

You seem unwilling to accept anyone point of view other than your own, and would rather patronise them, which is quite sad really.

quencher · 26/05/2016 13:26

Op, if 24 of May is empire day, when did they send out the message about the event? I don't think you have told us that. I would assume kids would have to buy or make costumes for these these events.

whattheseithakasmean · 26/05/2016 13:30

OP hasn't been back to update on whether she raised the issue before or after the event.... Before may have been constructive, after is just carping from the sidelines when her child has enjoyed a cheap evening activity arranged by dedicated volunteers.

BertrandRussell · 26/05/2016 13:56

She may not have known it was going to happen until afterwards.

And it's not carping to point out that something just shouldn't have happened and certainly shouldn't happen next year......

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