to complain that DD had an Empire Day theme at Rainbows?

[DancesWithTimMinchin]

DH is from a former colony. We don't think celebrating our history of colonisation is appropriate or inclusive. When we complained, the people who organise the Rainbow's didn't think there was anything inappropriate about celebrating Empire Day as a theme for a history-based afternoon.

AWBU?

So, a Rainbows/Beavers event about Rome, dressing up in Togas learning about Roman baths.....can't happen unless the subjugation of the native population is also given equal weight?

No colouring of knights shields and learning about jousting and chivalry without an analysis of the Norman yoke and the suppression of Anglo-Saxon culture?

I think too much is being read into, and expected of, a pleasant activity during an hour long meeting, organised by volunteers who give up so much of their free time to teach our children some very valuable life lessons and organise interesting activities.

I think this thread is divided between people who know a lot about the Empire, what it stood for and what happened as a result of it. those who think the OP is NBU and those who seem to know very little about it other than what they learnt at school those who think the OP is BU

It's not really about how each and everyone's various great-great grandparents were affected or what ethnic group anyone is, it's about modern British children and their views continuing to be tainted by historical inaccuracy.

wigornian it's not a pleasant activity. It is directly offensive and upsetting to many people and, because it is much more recent history than either of your examples, to many people whose cultures are still suffering the fallout of empire not so very many years later.

Personally, I wouldn't want my kid learning about baths and togas and not about expansion which was a far more fundamental part of Roman culture than baths or togas. Kids aren't stupid. Watch some Mary Beard.

dizzytomato nice, everyone who disagrees with me, is ignorant!

The British Empire spanned almost 500 years from start to finish and covered a quarter of the globe at its widest extent. I am sure you can find something positive to celebrate somewhere in that.
You might start with the global scouting network established by Baden Powell one of the great colonialists and of which Rainbows is a part.
That is why you have the commonwealth formerly the British commonwealth. Does that ring a bell ? What do you think it's for ?

The thread up post that said there were other nations worse than Britain, name the thing they did that was worse. We will probably find a similar thing Britain did somewhere else in the world that probably tops it. They were all as bad as each other. It's naive to say we were not as bad as the Germans, Dutch or Portuguese and the Spanish.

dizzytomato

then maybe those ignorant racist twats less informed people should stfu? Seriously, I wish you could tag users because I'd love to be able to avoid every single person defending Empire Day.

What the fuck has happened to mumsnet? When did it turn into UKIP?

Again you are confusing teaching with celebration. No one has said the teaching shouldn't happen. We are saying it was wrong to turn it into a "tea-party celebration" that is a bit sick, volunteers or not, they were clearly being dim (I hope because the other option is worse).

it's not really history if it's presented one-sidedly and without any context.

It's so true when they say history and war is told from the eyes of the winner.

I thought this would be something to do with Star Wars.
Have never heard of Empire Day before. It does seem wrong to glorify something like that.

wigornian it's not about disagreing with me. It's about not knowing the facts. There are many things I don't know about, but usually if I read information from people who do know, I wouldn't tell them that they are being silly and making a mountain out of a molehill if I don't really know what they do.

I have already said, I used to think like you. I don't anymore, there is a reason for that. As someone else said, you have a supercomputer. If you learn a lot about the history of the Empire (not just from the British, we weren't as bad as the others BS standpoint) and you still think the way you do, that would be different. But something about your answers makes me think that is not the case.

I agree with Kits my chiildren have visited the Roman baths but also learnt about the expansion, slavery, torture and generally horrors of the Roman Empire. No one tries to brush them under the carpet in the same way as the teaching of this more relevant and up to date Empire. Empire's happen, they can be counteracted in time, but we're talking thousands of years, not 60. I very much doubt that people in 2000 years would look back at the history of European Empirialism and spend the day dressing up and having tea! Not if they really study it.

YANBU. At all.

Its history.

Those of you making this argument, how do you feel about the Confederate Flag? In the recent debate about removing it from the grounds of the South Carolina statehouse, this was the main argument made by those who wanted it to continue to fly. It's an argument that is still being made across the Southern US as other states have removed it from official settings.

dizzytomato How patronising - I have no rose-tinted glasses, imperial history is my own family history, I am the descendant of slaves. It was of it's time; I know there is a lot more to it and older children will learn about other aspects - but these are 6 year olds!

It completely depends how and why they are doing it, doesn't it?

Will there be discussion and activities before and afterwards putting it in context (age appropriately)?

The leaders made a mistake.They called a celebration evening of other cultures by an outmoded and offensive name. Mentioning it to then is better than the word complain. There are 11 or 12 other meetings in a term. Have you reason to complain about any of them or are they doing a good job on the whole with providing opportunities ,activities and fun for your child?

Interesting thread. The British colonised Australia and were terrible to the Aboriginies, yet usually on threads about australia, Aussies are hailed as racists and the fact it was the British is ignored!

Because a re-enactment "this is what your (great) grandparents used to do" and a later session of "but the Empire wasn't fair and so it became the Commonwealth" could be pitched at the level of 5 and 6 year olds with no problem at all.

You could even get some really good stuff about bullying and coercion in friendship groups in there as a metaphor

wigornian

How convenient for this thread. If only I believed you.

As for being "Of it's time": the last colonies were decolonized in the 1970s. The repercussions of those events still inform global geo politics today. This isn't about being a lefty liberal, this is about having a half decent education and not being a racist.

Yes, and Mussolini made the trains run on time. So that's all right then, let's celebrate fascism.

OP if you want to be constructive, build bridges and for your DD to remain comfortably in the Rainbows, then ask for a follow up session on the Commonwealth. Maybe give them some resources or suggest some?

I just found this nice one ( for 7-11s but could be adapted) but there's plenty out there.;

www.tes.com/teaching-resource/commonwealth-history-british-empire-colonies-6431746

LOADS here;

www.commonwealthonline.org.uk/

A11TheSmallTh1ngs - I'm not sure what you're getting at? Believe me about what? Unlike some, I am not claiming that people who hold opposing views are stupid, but many on this thread are doing just that - it is sad that debate soon descends to this sort of level.

"24 May used to be called Empire Day. I remember standing around in the Infants' School playground with a Union Jack chanting"

And I thought I was the oldest living mumsnetter...........

wigornian I have no rose-tinted glasses we will have to agree to disagree on that one.

I don't know why you keep mentioning your ethnic background, imperial history is just history, it's not owned by anyone. Ethnicity doesn't give one person more knowledge about it, or right to say if it is OK or not to make it into a celebration.
The fact that you are not offended is of no consequence, celebrating Empire is not appropriate for any 6 year old and many historical scholars (one on this thread) would disagree with you.