To take exception to the term 'mumtitlement'?

[MerchantofVenice]

I'm sure many people have spotted this rather insidious word popping up on recent threads. Personally I find it unpleasant and misogynistic. Depresses me that a number of people immediately piped up about how much they 'loved' the term as soon as it was coined. Bleurrgh.

Why do we hate mums so much?? If someone's being unreasonably demanding, then that's one thing... But to try and link selfish behaviour to 'being a mum'... Wtf?

I get the idea that there is this general feeling that mums are marching around being all 'entitled' and, you know, trying to carry on their lives without apologising for being alive. This desperate need to belittle the whole of mumkind every time one mum gets something a bit wrong is so bloody annoying! Ok, if someone is a twat, call them out on it... But using a term like 'mumtitled' is confrontational to all mums - as if twatishness is peculiar to them...

A lot of the time, the issues seem to be about what women 'should' be doing - should they be going there, should they be breastfeeding there, should they just clear out of the way with their offensive offspring so that more important people can get on with their lives in peace? Pisses me right off.

Anyone else?

I could understand everyone falling over each other to slag off mums if this were, say, chauvinisttwats.com or similar....but it's, you know, mumsnet...

Well spotted Flo - you are right we all overlooked the word bitchy, and it is also not ok - that shows how deeply embedded in the language anti woman words are but in no way makes Mumtitled any better - both words are unpleasant and divisive.

All the examples people quote on this thread are just people being arses - people without children also use disabled bays without blue badges, and use other disabled facilities without apparent disabilities (in the later case we are always told they might have hidden disabilities, which is no more nor less likely if there is a child involved, and on threads about young boys in women's toilets parents of boys with ASD who are unable to change alone but look over 6/7/8 are almost invariably told to use the disabled facilities with their son where there is no unisex changing village. ..)

• obviously I mean the examples are of people being arses (rather than examples of Mumtitlement , not that the posters are arses

I hate all these silly new words!

Also regarding Flo's thing about women with small children expecting to leave at 4pm, or to take xmas leave are showing 'mumtitlement' over childless women . When I was childless it was obvious mothers/parents had zero wiggle room in their plans around leaving times or holidays- which would also make reciprocating cover for other employees unrealistic too. I might have been envious of them having an excuse to leave early/take particular leave - but I didn't expect a thank you from them !?! I wonder if Flo you are envious of your colleague's having a legitimate excuse for defining their terms of employment in your job that has unsociable hours, rather than they are exhibiting 'mumtitlement'..

schwab when your colleague changed the rota without asking, you ought to have changed it back and refused to go in on the days you were supposed to have off.
I wouldn't have hesitated to complain to management about that. It's their job to sort this stuff out, not yours to just put up with it. People like her get away with this stuff because other people are scared to kick up a fuss.

Before anyone accuses me of point scoring, I'm not trying to catch the op out. I actually compared 'mumtitled' and 'bitchy' in my first post back on page 1. I'll copy and paste part of it to save you looking:
I'm not sure about this one yet. I hate 'mumsy' or 'granny' (I'm a Style and Beauty regular) or 'bitchy': insults based purely on the fact that you're a woman / parent. But 'mumtitled' - I've not seen it used but that sounds like a specific type of behaviour....

This has been an interesting thread and it has made me think. I'm not someone who shrugs and says, 'it's just a word'. I think words are important. But I still believe there's a big difference between words that criticise behaviour and words that attack you for being female. I think it's a mistake to lump them all together.

I wonder if Flo you are envious of your colleague's having a legitimate excuse for defining their terms of employment in your job that has unsociable hours, rather than they are exhibiting 'mumtitlement'..
That's a truly desperate argument.
Pathetic.

Desperate?

flo your expectations seem strange to me. Why would you resent the mothers for having to plan their lives around childcare like that? Have you forgotten how little flexibility parents (particularly of small children) have?

Squirrel - but the reality is it is not parents. It is mums. Because sadly it is still the case in most families that it is the mum who takes responsibility for the kids.

Squirrel I am seriously pissed off with your comments. They're the equivalent of a sliding tackle - never mind the ball, just get the player.

If you can't hold a debate without resorting to accusations of envy and resentment then I suggest you back off.

You know nothing about me and I'm definitely not going to tell you any more now.

cleaty agreed re mum's taking responsibility. I suppose I am thinking of primary carers - and this responsibility is usually taken up by mums.

floisme I am not trying to get you to out yourself by adding more details. But you say it is usually other women who pick up the slack from the mothers at work. Why not be critical of the men who don't pick up the slack instead being critical of the mothers who actually need the slack?

IWILLgiveupsugar you are right that people like her get away with behaving like that because others are scared to kick up a fuss - I brought it up here because I wanted to point out that it is "people like that" not "mums"...

The minutiae of the rota situation are that the rota comes out on the 5th of the month for the following month. Between 5th and 14th people can agree shift swaps and write them onto the plan, then on 15th the set in stone rota is re-printed. The woman who swapped with me without consulting me did it when I was not on shift, some time between the 10th and 14th, so I went into work on 15th and found she'd done the swap without asking me and it was now on the official printed rota - I couldn't just swap it back - in fact I only knew it was different because she said to me in the corridor that I should check the rota as there were "some changes" and only when I asked her if she'd swapped did she happily admit she had as she had to go to a wedding (not her wedding obviously, that would be properly weird to have forgotten to book her own wedding day off work... a mate's wedding), nobody on shift with her when she noticed the double booking could swap and she thought I wouldn't mind and didn't have my number to ask...

That made it my problem, so she had royally pissed on me - it was my word against hers that I hadn't agreed to swap, if she wanted to make it that to management, and I would have looked Mumtiltled going to management saying I couldn't work that weekend due to childcare and she should miss going to her mate's wedding (though she had happily admitted in front of colleagues that she hadn't asked me before putting the swap onto the rota during the swap window, and didn't see a problem as she had to go to a wedding - as far as she was concerned it was no longer her problems as she'd got away with the change to the rota).

Also regarding Flo's thing about women with small children expecting to leave at 4pm, or to take xmas leave are showing 'mumtitlement' over childless women shock . When I was childless it was obvious mothers/parents had zero wiggle room in their plans around leaving times or holidays- which would also make reciprocating cover for other employees unrealistic too. I might have been envious of them having an excuse to leave early/take particular leave - but I didn't expect a thank you from them !?! I wonder if Flo you are envious of your colleague's having a legitimate excuse for defining their terms of employment in your job that has unsociable hours, rather than they are exhibiting 'mumtitlement'

So if I, a childless person, work in a department with a large number of parents I can expect to have to work on Christmas Day for ever more?

You are being naive, you must have never met a group of very 'proactive' yummy mummies

Avoiding the bun fight between Squirrel and Flo I do think Flo's situation was a management problem, and maybe some particularly brass necked colleagues - which has left her with a bad taste in her mouth about anyone needing to balance work and childcare and daring to actually mention that the reason they are asking for their annual leave in in August or at Christmas is because they have childcare responsibilities/ children, rather than for some other reason or no reason at all...

Before I accepted my current job I made sure I would not be expected to work hours I couldn't work - I wanted early shifts (6-2pm) because it fits in with when I have childcare (DH can be there before school but can't get home by 3pm regularly) - I also am not able to work Friday mornings nor late evenings as I have another job (this is allowed for various reasons) fixed on Friday mornings and some evenings which I can not not do, there is nobody else to do it and a voluntary commitment on Friday lunch time, but I can do late evenings on a Friday as that is the one day DH can always get home early, which is useful to my employer and colleagues as lots of people don't like working Friday late evenings, and I am happy to work either shift at weekends, and more than the compulsory for everyone one weekend a month, if I have the normal notice and am rotaed on in the usual way...

As management agreed to that in advance, before I signed my contract, I do not think that is being Mumtitled even though childcare was my over arching concern and I would not have taken a job which I had to put my children into longer childcare hours or farm them out all over the place for. I would also have to leave my job if my workplace was taken over and management became arseholes unwilling to treat their staff as human beings but requiring them to be automatons able to work any and all hours at the drop of a hat and behave as if they had no family commitments ...

My employer would find they had a very serious recruitment problem if they did that and would lose a lot of good staff and have to employ any old person desperate enough ... Which presumably is why they usually make sure they take people's pre defined needs into account when doing the rotas, even though that requires a lot more intelligence and thought than sticking any old name down as long as all shifts are covered.

Dailymail we've all met people who act like selfish arses whilst also being parents. It's just interesting that, apparently, there needs to be a female-specific derogatory term for this.

And if we're subdividing selfish behaviour by the justification given, or the identity of the complainer, why stop there? As Schwab said, why not dogtitled?

Or biketitled, vegantitled, inafuckingrushtitled, Londontitled, grandparentitled, toostressedotparkproperlytitled, smokintitled, Kardashiantitled, pensiontitled, drumtitled', loudtalkertitled, allthegoodbiscuitsareminetitled.

Nope? Just the one that points out women behaving badly? Great! Add it to the list! Eskimo languages have 50 words for snow... we're getting there, with words for female failure and transgression.

Schwab I see it as a system failure/management problem too. Obviously it depends what sector you are in, but in the days before I became a parent, I used to get paid double/triple time and have time owing in lieu, I remember being fairly happy working xmas day, new years eve, etc, or agency cover was sought to plug gaps. I was enticed rather than compelled to work those days/times and the mum's generally couldn't be enticed.

Dailymail what is a 'proactive yummy mummy'?

Haven't read the full thread but hate gendered insults. Mumtitled certainly sounds like a gendered insult.

Who was it - Madeleine Albright? - who said that there's a special place in hell for women who don't help other women? I always think of that when I see shit like this. Depressing really.

I bet a man exhibiting behaviours described in a woman as mumtitled would quite often be praised as a wonderful dad, too.

"the shitty, woman-hating, child-hating society men have built for themselves makes me want to slap people, quite frankly (unsisterly I know)"

I feel sad for anyone who lives their life feeling like this. Clearly, pity ≠ agreement.

squirrel

"I wonder if Flo you are envious of your colleague's having a legitimate excuse for defining their terms of employment in your job that has unsociable hours, rather than they are exhibiting 'mumtitlement'"

Why should they define the terms of their employment? Surely that should be done before they're hired whereas I suspect most of this mumtitlement comes when they were working before they were mothers. Why should Flo, for example, suddenly be at the bottom of the heap and someone who has had a baby get's to redefine what they do and don't do and when. Your idea seems to sum up mumtitlement. If one of my staff tried to do similar, I'd be calling HR to see when they can be sacked. At work you're an employee. What you do with your genitals (as I include fathers here) shouldn't have any bearing whatsoever on what happens in the office.

Why should [..] someone who has had a baby get's to redefine what they do and don't do and when.

The existence of a small, entirely dependent human redefines what a parent's working capacity is. Their limits are not something parents wake up one morning and selfishly decide.

I remember being fairly happy working xmas day, new years eve, etc, or agency cover was sought to plug gaps. I was enticed rather than compelled to work those days/times and the mum's generally couldn't be enticed.

Great. But I like having Christmas Day off, and your posts seem to imply that, having no children, I just have to put up with working Christmas Days.

For me, mumtitled sums that expectation (and the strops when I have refused) up perfectly,

I certainly never claimed the (very few) anti-male terms are not sexist (OBVIOUSLY they are) - but they are not gleefully thrown at men BY OTHER MEN.

You did claim that such terms weren't even coined in the first place.

your posts seem to imply that, having no children, I just have to put up with working Christmas Days.

Do they? If there are system failures I think you need to take them up with management - not sneer at mum's for having their hands tied with parenting responsibilities.