To think hording something essential for life is despicable

[sandrabedminster]

www.telegraph.co.uk/money/special-reports/i-have-three-properties-at-age-33-and-3000-a-month-to-save-do-i/

Its not jealousy before someone says it, I own my own home but I doubt my children will ever be able to. But shelter is something essential and all this speculation is causing lots of damage as prices are pushed ever higher. I know a friend that spends 70% of net income just on renting something that is too small for her.

Collectivise all farms! Oh bog off!

It's just that vendors and estate agents don't generally interrogate people who view houses about their land or indeed how they come to be in s position to buy at all.

When nearly every average joe has a BTL, OAPs are buying as a hobby and even old matey down the pub has a portfolio you should be worried something is about to go bang.

I do hope so. Investments can go down as well as up.

LollieB - have to disagree with you when you say " Please stop bashing landlords, the most of whom are generally good people" - from my experience of landlords, most are not at all 'good' people, and some are actively immoral.

The stats say it all: eg www.standard.co.uk/news/london/six-in-10-of-londons-private-renters-endure-hazards-such-as-mould-and-pests-survey-reveals-a3229416.html

If 6 in 10 private rentals are sub-standard (similar figures exist for the country as a whole), then that suggests that 6/10 landlords are not good people, or they'd prioritise the health and safety of their fellow human beings over their profit magins.

How can any landlord sleep at night knowing that their tenant may ot be able to afford to eat or put on the heating? - www.theguardian.com/money/2014/dec/23/private-tenants-cut-back-food-rent-survey

www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/property/11903957/The-hefty-price-of-living-in-the-capital-London-renters-forced-to-pay-much-more-than-they-can-afford.html

Maybe you are a lovely landlord, who cares about the welfare of their tenants. But if so, I'm afraid to tell you, you are very far from typical.

The fact that there are some bad landlords that rent out sub standard property doesn't mean that they whole country's system of housing is wrong. In exactly the same way that the fact that some tenants trash properties and don't pay rent doesn't mean that all renters are wrong.

Good tenants are valuable to landlords, and good landlords are valuable to tenants - it's something that works both ways.

The point has been made a few times that it can cost more to rent than to pay a mortgage on the same type/size of property as if there's something wrong with that, but I don't see how it could be any other way. It makes sense that renting costs more, because you are paying for a service when you rent that you don't get when you buy and have to be responsible for everything yourself.

Rent pays for the right to live in a place that is (or should be) decorated, with decent floors, with working plumbing and heating systems, with safe working electrics, with a safe gas supply, any ground rent included, if theres a problem with pests then it gets paid for, in fact if there's a problem with any of the above then paying for that to be sorted is included in the rent. Maintaining things like woodwork, windows, gutters, fences, drains, all of that is paid for by rent. Rent also pays for someone else to sort out all of these problems when they occur, and it pays for the insurances and extra things like safety certificates that let properties require. As well as paying for the financial risk that someone else took.

Of course it costs more than paying a mortgage! When you own and pay a mortgage, you still have to pay for most of the same things and more, but you have to do it on top of what you pay to your lender.

It's obvious that a monthly rental charge should cost more than a monthly mortgage payment. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with that.

Well said Osolea 👏🏻

Good points made Osolea. Some people on this thread also make it sound like the renters are at the mercy of ruthless, inconsiderate landlords, which I find very strange. When I was renting in my twenties and came up against a bad landlord, I simply moved out and found a new place. Why would you stay with a bad landlord when there are plenty of flats to rent.

I put up with bad landlords because ime it's a case of finding the least bad LL not the best.

I have never had a good landlord, hence why I am keen to buy.

This one appeared to be okay, but has since changed agents. The new ones do monthly inspections. At my last inspection I hadn't hoovered the stairs. I got a letter telling me 'there were a number of issues at the property when we visted. The property was generally grubby and the carpets were unvaccuumed. A further inspection will be carried out in 5 days to ensure these problems have been rectified" it then went on to threaten to evict me if I didn't 'maintain the standards expected of me'.

I showed CAB who said what they've done is illegal but as I have a rolling contract they can evcit me with a months notice for any reason and if I kick up a fuss they likely will. They've dealt with this agency before.

Now I could move but it costs to move, that cost will have to come out of the savings I have towards buying.

Despite this happening this is still the least bad LL/agent I have had. They repair things quickly.

Do I leave and possibly end up somewhere with no heating or hot water for months on end again? Or stay and put up with someone invading my home every month and judging my standards of housekeeping?

Fortuantely the council recognise there is a problem and are trying to buy new stock. I'm keeping an eye on their website for places in my area.

I'm always baffled when MN declares most LL are good. I've never, ever met a good LL.

Shelter extrapolate their small surveys, and those who don't notice therefore believe that most landlords are crooks. It is like believing that most tenants are dirty non payers because they are the ones you see on the telly.

One person living in an unsafe dump is one too many - but there are laws, methods and choices. Don't rent a dump from a crook.

Did the cab really give you this incorrect advice? It is two months notice for a start.

Agencies aren't regulated much. Landlords are.

Food
Clean water
Life saving medication

Those are essentials. Owning ones own home is not, and is a perculiarly British thing.

It's in my contract that either party can give 30 days notice to quit after the initial 6 month period and yes CAB did say they'll give me notice if I take action against them or refuse to let them inspect. This agency is notorious for their shitty treatment of tennants. They're also the cheapest for LL sadly.

The LL's I have rented from who don't use agecies have never been quick to make repairs. I once had to threaten legal action to get my boiler repaired after I'd been left with no hot water for 6 weeks, because the LL's plumber was 'on holiday' apparently

She then repaired the boiler and gave me notice to quit as soon as the fixed term was up.

I have rented for almost 15 years and have honestly never come across one of these fabled 'good LLs'. Maybe I'm just very unlucky.

If you are in england or wales your notice to the landlord is one month. Theirs to you is two. That is the law and the contract cannot override it.

Revenge evictions are now outlawed too to stop what happened to you previously .

Your contract is with the landlord, not the agency.

I'm aware my agreement is with the LL. Fortunately I have his number and have been in touch with him regarding this issue.

He is unwilling to stop working with this agency because they are saving him 'thousands' every month (he owns 17 properties) compared to the last one and are more effective at getting rid of non payers (because they do carry out illegal evictions, that's one of the things they are known for) but he was surprised , having rented to me for two years with no issues to hear that I was 'grubby' and isn't keen to evict me. He wants me to forward any further correspondance from the agency to him.

In the meantime I have to put up with my housekeeping being judged on a monthy basis, which I find really stressful and an invasion of my privacy.

Just a selection of the problems which I've had with tenants over the years:

• can you come and change this lightbulb (at 1.30am on. Sunday)
• can you replace a whole wardrobe of mouldy clothes and shoes because of a leak in the flat which happened three weeks ago and didn't think to let you know about
• accused of 'breaking in' to tenants flat for a good old rummage around (later established that his girlfriend had let herself in)
• left with a badly damaged, stinking flat after the tenants secretly kept a huge dog in my flat where strictly no animals were allowed
• phone calls from irate neighbours telling me that my tenants were arguing in the street wearing very little clothing
• original features of the flat stripped out in order to make the flat more to tenants taste

The list goes on. Forgive me is if I don't have much sympathy for this rather one-sided argument against landlords. Lucky to have good tenants now, but these are also far and few between imo.

So stop allowing inspections and change the locks. And if you think that means they will send the boys round, enlist the law. Wonder if your landlord is aware that he is responsible for these illegal evictions. If someone don't paying he has to pay more and wait like the rest of us .

All illegal as hell so I hope it is cheap.

It's all very well saying that when you're not on the recieving end of it but I have two children and this is my home I am risking if I piss them off.

They don't FWIW 'send the boys round' afaik, from what I've read online about them they change the locks and claim that they have been trying to contact you for x amount of weeks with no response so presumed the house was empty and took possesion.

Some poor lass came home from her jollies to find herself homeless and all her furniture sold. IDK what happened in the end, it was all deleted from FB before it was resolved. I've seen several similar notices pinned to the doors of properties they manage in town, so this wasn't just a one off.

I can't risk that with kids to think about and no family with the space to take us in and like I said I then run the risk of ending up with an even worse LL or agency.

I'm aware if such a thing happened I could take legal action against them (and would) but in the meantime I'd be homeless with two kids.

He is renting it out, not keeping it empty. Would it be better if he just put his money in the bank?

So change the locks first.

As long as people keep paying crooks it keeps happening.

LollieB - you may have had problems with tenants, but the point is that you choose to be in that situation. Presumably you have also made a reasonable amount of money out of your tenants otherwise you wouldn't still be a landlord. The difference for tenants is that most of the time they have no choice because buying a property now is beyond their reach. The cost of rent and housing is such that saving enough for a deposit is impossible for some people.

And before anybody suggests that maybe tenants should save by cutting down on going out / mobiles / television subscriptions / holidays etc - the relative cost of those is a drop in the ocean compared to how much deposits are. Saving an extra £200 a month for a deposit (not easy when you are paying more in rent than you would be for a mortgage) would still mean you are saving less than the average house is increasing in value over that time!

The main problem doesn't lie with BTL landlords. But it isn't fair to compare your problems with those of tenants who have no choice in having no home or security of their own.

obvious that a monthly rental charge should cost more than a monthly mortgage payment. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with that.

Well no. The houses owned by landlords should be owned outright. Now everyone and their dog has borrowed a shit load of money to speculate on property.

Mortgage costs do no dictate the rent. As landlords will find out as they are taxed more and the market can't take any more rises in rent.

Good / bad landlords is missing the point. Anyone borrowing money to speculate and push up the prices and out bid would be owners.

I love the way that so many private individuals profiting from the current levels of inequality start scoffing about 'communism' and 'socialist utopias' as soon as you critically evaluate the amount of damage their private greed is doing to the many. Or ridiculously claiming that McDonalds should hand over food for free. As if there were no alternative places to get food from than McDonalds.

There is a balance point between extreme private greed and extreme communism, between the good of individuals and the good of all, and we used to be much closer to it. We used to have social housing and very few private rentals, the private rental market was deliberately reinvented to allow for the greed of individuals. The balance is now totally lost, so muchso that any suggestion of return to the centre is greeted with as much scorn as if you had suggested extremes. Some of it is defensive of course. Thank god I think change and movement back towards the centre is coming now - bloody hope so anyway, we can't go much further down this route without serious environmental, economic, and sociological repurcussions. It's just a question of how long it is going to bloody take and how many more poor and vulnerable are going to suffer in the meantime.

Rental was less than mortgage not so long ago.

Btw the person in a town apparwntly sewn up by a law-ignoring agent and landlord: this is where shelter could make themselves useful, rather than with endless silly and questionable surveys.

I love the way that so many private individuals profiting from the current levels of inequality start scoffing about 'communism' and 'socialist utopias' as soon as you critically evaluate the amount of damage their private greed is doing to the many. Or ridiculously claiming that McDonalds should hand over food for free. As if there were no alternative places to get food from than McDonalds.

It's amazing how defensive clear-conscienced people can be.