to call my husband a racist?

[RosieandJim89]

We are looking at holidays at the moment and despite DH saying just a month ago that Spain was predictable and a dirty, he now won't consider anywhere else as its "safe". I suggested a few other places such as Turkey and he said no as he will get arrested for touching me . He will not listen to reason and then came out with "I won't go to a muslim country". I asked what he meant by this and he said they are all like Egypt - dirty and dangerous (his experience) and he doesn't agree with their way of life. He also brought up the shooting on the beach in Turkey to which I pointed out the incident in Paris, London Bombings, 9-11 etc. He said they were different. I could get passed it if it was a one off but when I suggested Morocco earlier in the week he came out with "I am not comfortable with taking DD to a muslim country" and another time he said he was "Wary of muslims".
I have always known that he didn't like the muslim culture which I understand as it is very different to our own but this is something else.
I got frustrated after a while and told him that I do not intend to holiday in Spain alone the rest of my life and that I did not want to discuss the matter further as realising my husband was racist was something that was not easy to take. He says he isn't but I think this conversation suggests otherwise. Happy to be told IABU or overreacting on this but I don't think I am :(

I've been to Oman scaryteacher and for the most part had an enjoyable holiday, however there was one occasion when we had a guide and he unnerved me. He had some radical opinions which were apparent when he dropped his guard and let things slip at times. He also treated us with polite disdain. Everybody else we encountered were pleasant. We had paid for a private guide for our family group so there were only the four of us and him - I felt exposed.

I'm expecting to see a mass atrocity aimed at tourists in the supposedly anodyne and safe Oman and Dubai (which I have also visited) - I sincerely hope that I am wrong

We'll be holidaying in Sardinia this year

As Europeans turn away from Turkey, Tunisia, Egypt, and any other destination tinged with a threat of terrorism, Spain – along with Portugal, Greece and Italy – is picking up the trade

www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/14/gridlock-tourists-terrorism-spain-balearics

Let's not pretend that Islamic countries have the monopoly on human rights abuses and prejudice....

That is a politician's answer. A neat reversal that dodges the question.
Nobody said that all abusive countries were Islamic. They asked if you could name any Islamic countries that weren't abusive.
So who is on your list?

We'll be holidaying in Sardinia this year

I'm jealous. I love Sardinia!

I did not want to discuss the matter further as realising my husband was racist was something that was not easy to take.

See now the odd thing about this thread (apart from the fact you started it 2 hours ago and haven't come back), is that you've managed to date this man, marry this man, have a child with this man and yet it took booking a holiday for you to discover that he's racist?

It sounds as though it's come as a surprise to you

I've not been before Walter - glad to hear that its a good place to go

Prejudiced perhaps but not racist.

Muslims are from all different races.

The human race being the main one of course.

I don't think that trying to change his mind will be beneficial. If you did manage to persuade him to visit one of your preferred countries, I'd expect to have it ruined by him spending the whole time pointing out examples to back up his views.

I love Morocco. My hubby is from Larache. It's a beautiful untapped town north of Morocco. Full of English Moroccans who go back every summer. You can wear bikini on the beach if you want.

This is us making a tagine on the beach.

It's absolutely beautiful hmc.

Great food, great wine, lovely sights.

He certainly sounds a bundle of laughs. Spain is "dirty and predictable"- how can a country that size be predictable??!! Has he met and spoken to every single Spaniard?

He won't go to Turkey because there was a shooting on the beach in Tunisia. Yeah, totally see the logic of that.

All Muslims are the same? Spain is the only non-Muslim holiday destination in the world? His logic is impeccable.

I seem to remember having to spend a lot of time a few years ago telling ds that "only boring people get bored". But I would be bored if I had to live with your dh.

I also wouldn't touch Egypt, Tunisia, Morrocco, Turkey etc again not because I'm racist but because I personally don't think they are the safest (or cleanest) places (and I'm always ill in the above resorts - 3 times out of 4).

There's more than Spain though, try Croatia.

I think he comes across badly and his views a little extreme but we all have our reasons.

I'm not sure about racist, but your DH sure is strong on sweeping statements and religious stereotypes. Does he not understand nuance? As for the PP looking for Muslim countries that have perfect human rights records, nope, I can't name one. However, I'm not sure I can name any Western countries that are uniformly progressive either. Try being poor and black, or gay in certain parts of the US. Try being black, wealthy and own a flash car in some parts of the UK. Hell, try being a refugee in many parts of Western Europe! It may be hidden among the general populace rather than public policy, but some darker practices lie just beneath the surface in many countries which otherwise have strong human rights records.

Personally, I'd take my three kids to Turkey without blinking, but be a little more careful of where I took them. The country is much bigger than many people think.

Putting aside what he's said. He has all the grace and eloquence of a toddler throwing spag bol at the wall because it's 'yucky'.

That is a politician's answer. A neat reversal that dodges the question.

Errr. My point is that saying that "all Islamic countries have human rights' abuses" may be true but it's a misleading statement if you consider that this is true of basically all non-"first world" countries. It picks out a characteristic (Islamic) that is irrelevant in this context - since so many Christian/Hindu/Buddhist countries have terribly abusive authorities there's no reason to think that any particular religion is connected with hr abuse. I'd imagine that there are criteria you can identify that links countries with abusive authorities, but a particular religion is not one.

It's like saying "all countries whose names end with -eria are human rights abusers - Algeria, Nigeria, Liberia" - it's true, but it's not a meaningful statement since clearly the fact that those countries' names end in those letters has nothing to do with the fact that they abuse rights. The difference is that this is immediately obvious when you say this about something like country names, but when you say "all Muslim countries have HR abuses" it sounds terribly like you're making a statement about Islam being somehow connected to HR abuse.

Your husband may not be racist. There are other words I'd describe him but my message would get reported and deleted.

Sounds like my great aunt, God rest her soul.

Has he been reading Daily Mail and Daily Express articles?

TBH it sounds very 'alien' to me but then again I am a born and bred inner Londoner so in terms of religion and race my own bias (which I aware is a prejudice and really admonish myself for) is feeling slightly 'wicker man' in rural places where everyone is white and homogeneous. I'd be nervous in the bible belt in the USA for example - but I know this is a prejudice and I need to overcome it.

Chanice Wow! Looks amazing!

I've been to Turkey and Morocco and his fears are exaggerated, but not totally groundless.

In Turkey you are absolutely fine provided you avoid the Costa del Chav parts. There young European girls absolutely are bombarded with sexual harassment. In the quieter and dare I say it more upmarket areas it's fine.

Morocco I think if I went back it'd be to a resort or road environment where you are not that exposed. It's okay but I think you do need to be aware of the cultural difference.

So is your husband racist? No, I don' think he is. Perhaps a bit lacking in nuance in his thinking, but it is not racist to note that Muslim countries pretty much all have a far more conservative attitude to relations between the sexes than the West. He is not unreasonable to want to shield his DD from sexual harassment either. Where he is wrong is in making blanket assumptions about all areas of the countries in question, but that makes him under-informed, not racist.

*riad, not 'road'.

Thanks nobility. That was a long-winded way of saying "no, can't think of a single one."

He does sound very blinkered and ill informed but then you do too a little, being so resistant to Spain.

There's an awful lot more to it than the big 'Brits Abroad' resorts and I second a previous poster's comments about all the monuments in Andalucia from when the Moors ruled the country. Seville, Granada, Cordoba are all spectacular.

Outside the main Costas there are wild coastlines with little fishing villages, Roman ruins, all sorts. You could go there every year for the rest of your life, go somewhere different every time and never have to have an English Breakfast or drink in a bar showing English football.

And that's before you consider the rest of the country and the mountains etc. And all the Islands, which again are far more than English Breakfasts and laying on the beach.

There's loads of other ideas on this thread too. France, Croatia, Greece, The Alps, Italy, Malta. So much choice if you aren't interested in Turkey or Spain and wherever you go, far more to see and do than lay on a beach and get pissed and far from boring and predictable.

nobility, stop dodging the question. Please name me a Muslim country with a good HR record and equal rights for minority religions, women and LGBT?

And yes, I would say that pretty much universally (with the possible exception of Turkey but even that's doubtful these days) these abuses and inequalities are intrinsically linked to Islam which is usually used to justify them.

Thanks nobility. That was a long-winded way of saying "no, can't think of a single one."

Er well, yes, that's what I am saying: the statement that "all Islamic countries have human rights abuses" is true but misleading.

That was a long-winded way of saying "no, can't think of a single one."

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