To be v worried that DD has been frightened about having baths since incident at her Dads a few months ago...

[NancyPiecrust]

I was just putting DD (nearly 2 but very bright, incredible memory & language skills, very sensitive & intelligent little girl) to bed... she was asleep & then woke up after 5 mins crying.. I went in & said to her "everything's alright" (was thinking neighbours above her bedroom had startled her awake as they are quite stompy) & she was still screaming really loudly, I said to her "shh shh everything's fine ... What's wrong? Are you worried about anything?" (I was thinking neighbours noises scared her) and she said "yes" whilst whimpering, I asked her - "what is it? tell Mummy" & she said "Daddy whacked the boiler" .... hmm
This is an incident that must have happened months ago because her Dad (my ex) had his boiler replaced a while ago but for ages it had been playing up & all I have been told is (after she blurted it out a few weeks ago & I then put 2 and 2 together, knowing what her Dad's like with temper/handling stress...Then I asked him about it & he just told me that they were in the bathroom & she was screaming whilst tired and waiting for her bath...he was trying to run her a bath but the water wouldn't go hot and the boiler kept resetting...(this is frustrating I know I had to deal with it for months when I lived at his house) but he basically just lost it & punched the boiler or whacked it or whatever (it's in the bathroom next to the bath) & I am not sure what else he did like if he shouted at her but she saw this act of aggression, which would have made a very loud noise which she is extra sensitive to but any 2 year old would be frightened of this no? And to see her Dad suddenly switch like this. To me it seems really scary and inappropriate. I am only just piecing this all together in my head so could do with an outsider perspective.
The fact that she's still bringing it up and and still seems traumatised by it now is worrying me a lot, and also that she didn't mention it to me for months, maybe until she had the verbal ability to but instead she seemed to suddenly develop a fear of the bath out of nowhere & I could never work out what it was ! For weeks she would be in the bath & then would suddenly look over under my sink, stand up and scream out of nowhere & say "Out Out ! Out!" And be like shaking with fear and desperate to get out, as if she had just seen a shark swimming towards her or something ! I was baffled & asked her "What is making you scared darling? What is it? What are you looking at? (under the sink)" but she would just cry and cry and cling to me and not tell me anything. Her Dad also told me she has gone off baths & refused to have a bath at his house. Then the next time I was in the bath I saw that there are these exposed pipes under my sink...I realised that must be what she is looking at & thought maybe she thinks it's a snake or something ? So next time I saw her looking at the pipes and whimpering and getting uncomfortable and starting to say "Out ....Out.." I said "Are you looking the this darling?" And pointed at the pipes. She said "Yes I don't like them" and continued being scared. I took her out of the bath & I said "Maybe I will cover them up or get Daddy to cover them up if they are worrying you?" She said "yes cover them up" "Daddy will cover them up" . I then ended up just putting an Abney & Teal sticker over the pipe to make it look more friendly. She seemed happier with this. Anyway another time we were talking about the pipes again (she brings up upsetting stuff often eg. "I fell in the stingy nettles!" Or "Sid pushed me over!" and will say it over and over again to kind of process it I think.
Anyway so yes we were talking about the pipes again & I was saying how "yes we put the sticker there so they look nicer!" and she suddenly came out with "Daddy whacked the boiler". Immediately it all made sense...knowing my ex's temper & problem with his boiler & how he can't stand or handle her crying etc & the bath fear..the fear of the pipes (His boiler has exposed pipes that are next to the bath).....I asked him about it but he didn't explain much. Now I feel like I need him to explain more. She still now doesn't really like baths anymore & only is interested in having one it I go in there with her. Which is really sad because she used to love baths.
So anyway yes this evening going to bed she has now seemed to have another flashback of it & mentioned it again, months after it must have happened. And I suspect I only heard about it weeks or months after it actually happened. Quite worrying.
This evening I then had a long talk with her about it & I told her that grown ups make mistakes & do things that are wrong & that Daddy should never do something like that again & that I am sorry if she was frightened by it. She then said "Mummy wasn't there". I told her it was not her fault & that it was because Daddy was angry with the boiler, not with her.
I am devastated sad I just do not trust him and I am so upset that I was never told about this when it happened & she must have been so frightened. She seems truly traumatised ! What can I do/ What should I do?

Strong opinions on all sides?!
I'm the first to admit that I have a strong opinion.
But I've never encountered anyone advocating passionately for a violent man to have unsupervised access to a toddler.

Ok, yes, there is a backstory. Sorry to hear this

I don't thin unsupervised contact is a good idea really. Do you have a case worker or someone you can approach for advice?-

By strong opinions from all sides I meant from the abuser wanting to see the child (1 side) and the mother another side and ss etc another side

Oh I see, thanks for clarifying

Depends on what kind of person her dad is, I suppose.

I am prone to losing my temper when very frustrated, which got better on antidepressants, so if that is the issue, maybe he should try that route - I do not live with a little child, so would not frighten anyone. (I think I would be able to control myself if I knew there's a child who might be frightened. Just feels better to yell and curse sometimes, if you get what I mean)

So, if his temper is the only issue (i.e. he is a decent person at heart), he will likely not do this again if you tell him that he frightens her.

If, however, he has shown an ongoing disregard for DDs wellbeing ... yeah, then I'd be worried, too.

Solicitors regularly advocate for the abuser to have contact

The amusing thing about threads with a big drip feed is that it's blatantly obvious who's read all the OP's posts, and who's only bothered to read the first one

I did report to Women's Aid yes, it was almost a year ago. He is an extremely devoted & loving Dad and I didn't want to deny her a relationship with him because of what he did in our relationship. Although I did have concerns & deep down still do....Him and his family have minimised his DV to such an extent that I never felt it was necessary or a good idea to involve the police and I didn't think it would help the situation.
I thought at least if I try and remain civil with him & his family that she could still see him but I could just keep a very close eye on him. Hand on heart since I started letting him have her 1 night a week, I have never been worried at all until this incident came to light. I thought he was in therapy & being very responsible etc and really trying to be a better man.

i feel getting a professional involved to assess the situation would be a good idea, stop unsupervised contact now.

Damn, you posted while I was writing. So, yeah, clearly the latter. I can understand being frustrated and angry at an object, but if he has a history of violence against you ... uh, can you go back to supervised contact?

"extremely devoted & loving Dad" who scares the shit out of her

How can you "keep a close eye on him"? How can you control him when he violently assaulted you?!

You are naive and wrong to think that abusers can change, they very rarely do. He's probably not even in therapy.

Did you ever read "Why does he do that?" by Lundy Bancroft?

Your ex sounds fairly similar to my husband. Both have a bad temper and have scared our children when angry. Not knowing the extent of his violence towards you, I would say that a Dad having a 2yr old is a scary thing for them. No mothering instinct, no bonding maternity leave. Has he prior experience of a child or completely out of his depth? Our child is now 4 and my husband has really got the knack of parenting but it took a long time. He also got professional help and it did improve things alot. I see myself as the complete opposite of my husband but I too have scared our child in the past, I'm sure. S**t happens, you get annoyed, they see it. It's life. I think we would all have hit the boiler. Only you know the depth of your ex's problems. The reassurance you gave your child is lovely and hopefully something your ex can also offer her as he gets to grips with becoming a father.

The problem with children this age is, that little things can build up very easily as they just can't express what is worrying them. She is only just getting some language to tell you, and even then its quite limited.

You could try doing some drawing or playing and talk about her worries at the same time. Of course it would be even better if her Dad could do this with her and could reassure her.

Did she see the violence in the past? Do you have any support from any charity that could provide a play worker to work with her?

You ended your relationship with him because he was violent to you. Your dd does not have the liberty to make such a choice but I can guarantee she is copping it from him too. Domestic violence is not limited to stabbing and choking, it includes emotional abuse, raging... pretty much as you have described your ex. I know you want to believe he has changed but he hasn't, no way. Why would he?

I think maybe you should chat to your hv, and ask for help with all this. You need support.

It sounds like your fears for your little girl are coloured by your experience of his aggression. Having experienced this with my ex and his daughter I would suggest that this might be something to discuss at mediation which should be a safe environment. If you are really worried, supervised access is an option you could explore. I'd be inclined to acknowledge your ex's work towards improving his responsibility but pin him down on exactly what help he is getting. Point out that this display of temper has unsettled your child and ask him to ensure this doesn't happen again so that they continue to enjoy one another.

Wow. In the nicest possible way I think this is a massive over reaction on your part.

Your daughter seems to be on the sensitive side. That's not a problem. Lots of kids are. Your job as parents would be to help her cope with her fear. If you set out to keep her away from upsetting situations for all eternity you have quite a project ahead of you.

As for your ExH: obviously not an ideal situation but hardly the crime of the century. He lost his temper (or maybe bashing the boiler hard was what it took to make the boiler work pre boiler service.). If his bashing scared your DD, that's of course not great but much more important is how you move on from here.

The way you describe this incidence, Is very dramatic. So it seems to me that you are feeding her fears rather than being supportive and understanding but sending the message that loud bangs on their own are nothing to be scared of.

Your daughter sounds lovely by the way. I bet she has a great imagination.

ahh yes...regretting the drip feed....I guess I just thought it was worrying enough on it's own without having to include that he was violent to me. I have huge issues regarding this issue because like I said it has been minimised to the point of...I don't know...me thinking it was almost my fault. I know how ridiculous that sounds when I write it out. But if you met him you would see how charming and personable he can be and most people who know him would describe him as ' a lovely guy'. He just has some serious issues. My options going forward are either just stopping unsupervised contact altogether (in which case he will be completely devastated & start legal action I am sure) or I think requesting in mediation that he be in therapy in order for him to have unsupervised contact with her...I don't know. I don't know what is best. She loves him so much. We are moving 2.5 hours away to be nearer my family as finally a house has come up down there so he won't be able to see her as much but he does want to have her at his house for a whole weekend...which I don't really want at all. I have told him he can visit her our new house but he says that is unworkable for him. I am willing to put up with seeing him once a week if that is what I have to do but at the moment I am seeing him almost every day because his Mum is my only childcare at the moment, he comes to see her at my house often etc. We live round the corner so I always thought 'why not?' if he wanted to come for a couple of hours to play with her & so I could also just get regular idea of what his mood was like & how he was being with her etc. He's not very good at hiding his feelings or temper either so if he was agitated I would see it in a flash.
He 'lost it' apparently as she was having a tantrum about wanting to get in the bath & he wasn't able to run the bath because of the boiler and so hit the boiler... Her tantrums are enough to make me want to stick my head in a bucket and run down the street away from it...so I get it...it's stressful when she's screaming but also I am able to keep my calm because...I just am. I have worked with kids for 10 years and her tantrums are the worst I have ever seen but also I know how to deal with them. He maybe doesn't.

Oh wow. Just read the update. Sorry took me quite a while to finish writing the post. Apologies.

If he does go the legal route, cafcass will look at all the circumstances and make a recommendation to the judge.

I'd say no to whole weekends with her dad if I were you.

I would seek legal advice from someone who is an expert in this area. The problem is that ultimately you have no police report of his violence to you, and even this incident (although I'm sure you are right, signifying he is scary to your dd) isn't actually him being violent to her. I don't know if it would be enough- but a lawyer/mediation specialist would know what would be best to do in this situation, what evidence you would need etc. If it goes to court it may well be he gets unsupervised contact on a weekend, exactly what you don't want, but with the added difficulty that it is then set in stone to a larger extent

Sorry I don't have better advice! Perhaps start a thread in Relationships/have it moved there as there are people who will have been through this exact scenario.

Mummyme1987 -- what would CAFCASS say in regards to the DV etc to the judge....?
I am just shit scared of any legal matters. Is it crazy that I still try and see the good in him & hope he could change or that the DV was an isolated incident (it kind of was) .....I just don't want to be labeled as 'the person who took his daughter away' or have to explain to my daughter when she's older why she doesn't see her Dad or why her Dad hates me or why we can't be in the same room as each other etc etc. I still just this last year have been trying to 'keep the peace' at the expense of my own feelings (it distresses me/upsets me/mindfucks me to see him all the time) because I didn't want to take him away from her or her away from him. I didn't want to make a huge drama and upheaval for my daughter to be in the middle of. I thought I could sort of handle it on my own & I was worried that he would turn really nasty and go the legal route if I told anyone in a professional position about the DV. When I told him I was going to call the police he said he should have called the police on me for screaming at him in his own home. (I wasn't screaming I had my voice raised as we were having a diagreement) and he maintains that he 'had to move me onto the bed' which is untrue & a very watered down version of what he did.
What I am worried about it why is my daughter seeming to have nightmares or mention this incident with the boiler months and months after it happened? I mean her memory is astounding I know...she still mentions people she hasn't seen for a year and who I haven't talked about ! She speaks in proper sentences, past present and future tenses...uses sophisticated words like 'similar' and 'concentrate' and 'unfortunately' and 'realise' and she is only 2 in July. She has also somehow managed to memorise a lot of songs and Spanish words and phrases. She is very very clever but very very sensitive as well... I feel I need to investigate this further and listen to my instinct but also I want to believe that he is a good person too...or that he is capable of change. What can I insist upon in mediation and how can I know he is actually going to therapy or what kind of therapy he should be in? OUr couples therapist suggest he go to Group Therapy. He said he couldn;t because of money but his Mum has since offered to pay for therapy for me...I told him thank you but she should spend it on her son's therapy instead !

I have no idea! All I know is that it happens (Google). I suggest you go to a free half hour solicitor and get proper advice. Xx

Did read on google, that if its dv that's been documented officially (woman's aid) then you will get legal aid solicitor paid for if you are low income xx