Update regarding my bonkers parents

[Fieryfighter]

Some of you may remember my post here which I kindly had lots of support and advice on

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2503878-Feel-dreadful-after-really-upsetting-my-parents-but-dont-think-IABU?trending=1

I've had no contact with them since apart from seeing them once in a car park where they walked past giving me evil looks and an email saying that hadn't said sorry as they were waiting for me to and waiting to see if I loved them enough.

Anyway, very sadly my aunt (of the aunt and uncle they went crying to) passed away recently and now I have a family funeral to cope with.

My parents stopped talking to my aunt and uncle a few months back when my uncle told them I was coming to visit them and dad put the phone down on him. My aunt had been going through awful cancer throughout this mess and finally had passed away. My mum started calling them a couple of weeks before she died as my uncle called and told them she was facing a major op. Thankfully my dad finally spoke to my uncle (his brother) two days before she passed.

Anyway, my mum emailed to say they wanted to see my kids before the funeral as she didn't want it to be the first time in ages they'd seen them, I replied saying I thought it be best if we meet for a chat on neutral ground first (don't want to go to their house after the previous hysterics and the vile looks). I know from what another family member had said that they think I'm in the wrong and behaved awfully so wanted to see how the land lies and how they'd be with me before them seeing the boys.

Anyway, she's now saying it's best not to see each other yet and again going on about how much they'd helped me in the past etc and that we'll see how things are after the funeral.

I feel totally broken again, I've just about coped with this as it is, I think about it all the time and it stresses me so much, although it had got easier.

I can't tell you how much I'm dreading the funeral, I'm literally shaking at the thought.

The levels of emotional blackmail you are enduring are astonishing. I love the way they both plead for you to be reconciled and announce that they are moving away (while making the latter all your fault).

I'm so sorry you're having to put up with this. It's not right.

Hmmmm change your email settings so they go straight to junk???

They are not going to let you escape easily are they?

Oh God. I remember your initial post, Fiery. You've been through a lot. And your poor uncle. You're an amazing supportive niece to him. All you can do is keep reiterating that he doesn't need or deserve to be piggy in the middle over this.

And I'd ignore your parents' email, TBH.

Ignore all of it. It is bait for you and uncle.

Uncle knows what they are like and he knows what you are like. It won't be a matter of him believing them. It will be a matter of him choosing to side with them and reject you for an easy life.

If uncle does that you can simply say "I understand what a difficult position my parents have put you in. You have to make the choice that you think is right, same as I do. I will miss you."

Agree with RunRabbit, and you can do nothing about your parents' or uncle's behaviour, only your own reaction to it; if you enter any further into this stupidity you're just doing your parents' work for them

Anyway, are you sure you even believe the latest about selling the house and moving? What makes you think it isn't just more manipulation, designed to make you cry "oh no, please don't go!!!" ??

Fiery I remember your previous thread. I'm so sorry that this is ongoing. Your parents behaviour is dreadful, and to use your grieving uncle in the way they did is utterly despicable. They really must not care about anyone except themselves.

I know it's a terribly difficult thing to consider (understatement) but maybe think about going No Contact?

My heart goes out to you, it really does.

I think RunRabbit's advice is wise. I fully appreciate it is much easier said than done though .

Fiery

They've had you well trained.

Your parents are both narcissistic and you must not respond at all to your mother's e-mail. All these people have really cared about is their own selves.

You should be careful in particular when they start to become "nice"; they are simply setting you up to do something nasty to you. Do not keep putting your fingers into the lions den.

It is not possible to have any sort of relationship with such people so do not even try. Your uncle has been used by them as a flying monkey; manipulated by them also to do their bidding.

These people were not good parents to you and will remain toxic examples of grandparents to their grandchildren. The best thing you can do for your own children is to keep your parents well away from them, they do not need this level of toxic crap and manipulation in their young lives.

If you have never read "Toxic Parents" written by Susan Forward I would suggest you do so asap.

Oh Fiery - so sorry this pair of narcs is continuing to fuck up not only your life but your bereaved uncle's as well!!

I'm not even sure I believe that your gift and card didn't arrive - I expect it did but they either ignored it or chose to pretend that it hadn't to have a "legitimate" stick with which to beat you.

Your poor uncle, he'll not know where to turn, what to do - he needs SUPPORT now, not bloody being caught in the middle of a family situation that is not of his making!

As for the email - ignore it. Don't respond at all. That is the best option you can take at this point.

For your uncle - phone him/go to see him and OFFER to back off. Tell him that, more than anything, you want for him to have support around him, not be involved in this situation, and if you being in contact with him is causing him more grief because of your psychotically selfish parents, then you will back off - but only if that's what HE wants. If he wants you to stay around as part of his support group, then you will of course.

You can't stop your parents from doing what they're doing. You can't stop them from wailing to your uncle. Hopefully he will be able to see (again) that YOU are not the problem here, as you actually care about his feelings, which they clearly don't.

for you - and I hope they stay away from your aunt's memorial service too, as no doubt they'd try to make that "all about themselves" too. :(

Oh Fiery. I'm sorry, this is so hurtful for you.

If you look in the Relationships board, you will find a thread named 'You cannot communicate with Batshit', and at the beginning of it you'll find a link to the previous thread - you would find the second half of that previous thread probably very helpful to read. It's an ongoing discussion between mnetters with estranged, NC or low contact family members, mostly parents, and the earlier thread especially focused on the huge reality gap between what those parents say and seem to feel is happening, compared to reality. There's a lot of links and discussion to resources and websites helping estranged children to understand this kind of insanity and support for how to handle it, this site is a particularly good one:

www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/

and on this blog there are discussions in the comments which are very insightful : this was a conversation with an estranged parent on the comments who was demonstrating in detail his very dysfunctional beliefs, his cognitive distortions, his inability to process responsibility, and other participants in the discussion try very hard to engage with him reasonably and politely (it doesn't work) and also point out what he is doing. It became very evident, there was no way to communicate across the reality gap, his world to him was real and right and he couldn't see the total batshit of what he was saying. Even that he was flat out contradicting himself. Trying to negotiate with him just made him more frustrated and angry. It's exactly why the new thread is called 'you cannot communicate with batshit'. You can't. No matter how you try, communicating with and moving forward with someone when they cannot help but come from a very distorted, dysfunctional perception of what is happening, is nearly impossible.

You can find the comments conversation here: issendai.com/wp/estrangement/a-parent-responds-to-unwanted-contact-is-not-stalking/

and the main blog page is here:

issendai.com/wp/

I found it beyond helpful to see other people point out what that person was doing, what their distortions were, it helps me to distance myself and process what is happening rather than react emotionally to it and be hurt by it, and it also helps to see these are 'scripts', known and often used beliefs and strategies in dysfunctional families which makes it feel less 'my fault' and reduces the guilt of feeling like a failing and bad daughter.

Sadly you can get it right 365 days a year and still be wrong, if that person's internal script dictates it.

Fiery, I remember your first thread, and have read the updates. I'm really sorry for you and your family and uncle.

Have you read up on Narcissistic Personality disorder, because the ways of manipulating you and uncle are exactly what I would expect of someone with this. They will stop at nothing to get their own way, and they care nothing for anyone else's feelings or wishes unless it pleases or benefits their own desires. They have no empathy. I suspect that your dad is well and truly under the narcissistic influence of your mum, she would have said she was too ill to attend the funeral, and he would not dare to defy her. Such seems the level of control she has, he believes implicitly everything she says and thinks. The way such people operate is to be all lovely when you do what they want and obey, and do the 'we're moving away because you won't talk to us' to make you feel guilty and consider relenting. They think they need to punish you for not toeing their line. They think nothing of making your uncle try to get you back on their side.

Please don't respond. Keep supporting uncle and if you think he could cope, explain to him why his brother and SIL are behaving as they are. Say you must protect your DS's from them.

I wish you didn't have to go through this.

I remember your previous thread and have just caught up with this one.

Personally I really WOULDN'T ask them not to lay all their made up burdens on your uncle. It won't stop them, and it will just serve to let them know that the way to get to you is through him.

They might even redouble their efforts on him in the hope of getting results.

You can't argue with crazy, as the MN saying goes. Ignore them, they're beyond reason. Talk to your uncle, let him know that you won't put up with your parents' shit but that you're there for him.

again, this must be so hard.

I just spent the afternoon reading the old thread. Whew!
You have done entirely the right thing so far. I wish you all the best.

Thanks all for your messages, yes I've read a fair bit about narcissistic people and also the toxic parents book since this all kicked off. It does help.

If it wasn't for my uncle I'd probably care a lot less but I'm so worried about him and trying to help him all can and all they're doing is upsetting him and he can't see that, he just wants me to make it all ok.

I will offer to step back from my uncle if need be. I did before to my uncle and aunt, and I think that helped them see I wanted what's best for them.

Dogdays thank you for reading, that's some commitment!

I'm in work babes, what else am I gonna do ;)
Been NC with my family for a couple of years. It's awful but it's better than eating shit. Hold your ground :)

Dad didn’t expect anything for Father’s Day nor indeed did he want to receive postal presents

A very nasty sly dig there!

OP - I still think you should print out both threads, with comments and post it anonymously to your parents.

Hi Fiery, I have spent my afternoon off work reading your Xmas thread and this one. We could literally have the same parents! I totally understand everything you are going through, I'm a little further down the road than you are. After several fall outs and sulks, months of NC and tentative reconciliations I have been entirely NC for four months now and do not intend to get back in touch with them. Ever. You have my full sympathy and understanding, I was the good daughter with the wild sibling too and I realise I can never ever please them. My brother is NC too now so they have nobody to play off, nobody to gossip to and they are alone. They have made zero effort with my teenage kids who are polite but don't give a damn. I know how much it hurts and (if it isn't too condescending) I'm so proud of you for being so strong. It's properly shit to have to deal with this and it isn't your fault. Fuckers. I'm taking comfort in the fact that I'm a FAR better parent than they ever were and I hope you feel that way too. Sorry for rambling but this really hit home, I just wanted to extend a hand and let you know that while they may try to turn everyone against you (again, fuckers!!) they are treading a well worn cliched path and you are not alone. Enjoy a peaceful and drama-free life, you are awesome

Asprilla - why would you think sending the threads to her parents would help in any way? They wouldn't recognise or accept that anyone else's commentary was in any way valid; in fact, they're unlikely to accept that Fiery's "side of it" is valid either. All they will see is that she's been "telling lies" to "make them look bad" and dismiss the whole lot out of hand, while simultaneously realising that Fiery uses MN - which will then give them the opportunity to stalk her.
Really bad idea.

Don't send these threads! As Thumb says, they won't believe it's them.

Plus you'd lose your 'safe place'. Once they realize you'd posted on MN, you know they'll search for other threads.

Sorry

Don't respond. What a bizarre email - even telling you the price of the house... That's truly weird.
Then the instruction that you must email them back by a deadline with a list of your grievances. This is classic - they now have a list they can use to beat their breasts to others (oh! Firey thinks X!) and to manipulate you further with.
Don't respond!