To ask for a refund?

[IThinkIveHadEnough]

Yesterday I bought a used Citroen C4 Grand Picasso 2.0 I 16v VTR+ ESG petrol from a trader. It's an auto 07 plate and has just over 68,600 miles on the clock. Test drive was fine and the 70 mile drive home was also ok.

This morning I went out and the car started fine but driving away it sounded a bit like a a motorbike when I pressed down the accelerator, with the noise stopping when I took my foot away. The car felt a bit jolty changing gears too. Rang the place I bought it from and they asked me to try get a mechanic to have a look at it and let them know what was wrong. I had to nip out this afternoon and the noise was happening again but then the car seemed to get stuck in first and the car bleeped with a 'depollution system fault' and engine management light. After that the car seemed to struggle changing up gears, especially 3 to 4. Felt a bit sluggish.

Managed to get it home and called out AA to have a look at it. I explained what was happening, he had a look under the bonnet and revved the engine a bit. White smoke was coming out the back at this point. He plugged in his fault reader and the following codes came up:

P0170 - fuel correction bank 7
P0300 - random cylinder misfire
P0172 - fuel/air mixture rich
P0130 - o2 sensor, bank 7, sensor 2 out of range

The AA guy said it could just be a faulty o2 sensor but then again it might not be. Most likely the exhaust. I told him to leave everything as is for the time being as I'm going to give the trader a call tomorrow. I've been googling a lot (which can sometimes be a curse!) which throws up a possible hole in the exhaust etc etc. I did originally take a recording of the sound and sent it to a mechanic friend (not local) who says it sounds like this could be the case and they (the garage) could have patched it with putty or something hence there being no sound yesterday. I'm in two minds about what to do. Do I let them have a chance at fixing it or give it back an ask for a refund? I've been stung by a French car before (b*** Renault) and I really don't want to go through the aggro again to be honest. The trader also owns a garage and mot'd the car the day before I bought it with no advisories or anything. I know that under the October 2015 consumer act I do have the right to return the car for a refund within the first 30 days or ask for them to fix it. I think I'd prefer to ask for a refund at this stage, it's something I just don't need right now. The car was £4k and I'd expect better than it to be faulty a day after purchase. AIBU? Any advice would be appreciated!

Also to answer that I do have the mot certificate. It just says pass with no advisories. The attached was stapled to it for the emissions results:

you dont even know what is wrong with it- find out first and then you will know if you have a case for a refund. theres a big difference between a loose connection and your flange socket bearing giving up- so find out what it is

Thanks fasc.

Araiba - thanks for that I don't expect the bloody thing to break a day after I drive it home when I've done around 80 miles in it at the most. I'd read about the particular model having previously won awards and being really good for safety, so decided to go with it. I can't afford to just lose £4000 to a faulty car a day after purchase.

why would you lose 4k?

the garage fixes it and all is ok surely?

Sorry I cross posted. No I don't know exactly what is wrong with it, just that its faulty. I spoke to the AA man who examined it and he said it could be a number of things and that if I did get it repaired the problem may come back and there'd be a process of elimination depending on how it ran. I can't afford to send it for repair to be left with no car when I have to get the DC to school and myself to work. What happens if they fix it and then it goes again? I don't want to take the risk quite frankly.

Take it back to dealer and demand that either a) they sort it and return it ASAP or b) they refund you. Depends how much you want the car really. Similar happened to me - warning lights as I was driving home from the garage. They took it back, fixed the problem (it needed a new coil pack) and gave it straight back. The only odd bit was that I'd paid several thousand pounds and ended up driving back from the garage in my old car (I'd part-exchanged it).

Get rid of it asap.

It sounds identical to the car and problems I had a few years ago. Even the year and model.

A catalogue of problems within weeks of purchase. I had to go via trading standards and got a replacment car.

any car you buy for 4k has a risk of something going wrong on it. its likely to be quite old and have many thousands of miles on it.

take it back and see what they say.

if you get your 4k back, you will have no car and can still risk buying an even bigger lemon

I had a hole in my exhaust but it still passed the emissions test on the mot. Just adding that if it's any use. Either way I would also be requesting a refund OP. Good luck.

Thank you all for your replies.

I do understand that used cars can have problems, but not the day after purchase. If this would have happened a few months down the line then fair enough but a day is not really on. As I said £4K is a lot of money and I'd pressed to try another car rather than stick with it and possibly be in the same situation however long down the line.

Personally if you can take it for an mot. You'll get everything you need paper wise then when you return it and they won't be able to just patch it up and sell it on.

Re the emissions test, even though it's been clamped down on there are still garages who'll stick the thing in another cars exhaust so they can pass the car.

That may be a good idea. Having an MOT from somewhere that isn't connected to that dealer at all may make things a little clearer. I'll see how this call goes. Just waiting for them to get back in touch now, once it hits 4pm I shall ring them back if there's been no contact.

I called at 4pm and he wasn't there, though called me 5 minutes later from the dealership number

He's not accepting there was a fault on it, as I said it seemed to drive fine on the way home and on the test drive. He's insisting on a repair. He said that I'm only entitled to a refund on a pre-existing fault and they can prove it didn't have a fault when I took it as I could drive it away fine, it passed its mot and it had a Citroen Heath check. I told him I had no paperwork to prove they had this health check carried out. He said I know and I will email you it on Monday but I will contact my warranty company and I will find a garage in your area to get the car in for the morning to repair it. I then stated I wasn't happy with this and I had been advised via citizens advice that under the new consumer act if a fault developed in 30 days that I was within my right to request a full refund. He then went on to say that he knew their rights and that they could legally just offer to repair the vehicle, that it had to be a preexisiting fault and the fault the car was showing now wasn't preexisiting. I told him to hold off on organising anything as I didn't want him to do that, I wanted to contact citizens advice again and take more information. He told me he was organising for the car to be picked up and fixed to get me back on the road. I told him again I had no confidence in the vehicle and wanted a refund as the vehicle was faulty.

He mentioned if I wanted to go through the refund avenue that I would be off the road for months, they knew their rights and they weren't just going to roll over and offer the refund. What the hell do I do now? I ended the call by saying I would speak to him tomorrow as telling him I didn't want the repair seemed to fall on deaf ears. Feel really upset.

They are trying to scare you into having it fixed, you are well within your rights to return it

In October 2015, the Consumer Rights Act replaced the Sale of Goods Act, so anyone who bought a car after 1 October 2015 is protected by these latest rules. The new Act is more rigorous than the law it replaced, giving consumers have greater rights than they did previously.
One of the most important differences is that if you buy something that's found to be (or becomes) faulty during the first 30 days of ownership, you’re within your rights to reject it out of hand and receive a full refund.

Read more: New car rights: Can I reject my car? | Carbuyer www.carbuyer.co.uk/tips-and-advice/your-new-car-rights#ixzz48jyZ75qR
Follow us: @CarbuyerUK on Twitter | CarbuyerUK on Facebook

I suppose the part you need to highlight to the seller is the bit that states found to be, or becomes faulty during the first 30 days

I hate it when sellers try to manipulate buyers

I did try to say that to him, he just kept closing me down. What he was talking about more sounded like the after 30 days part where I'd be obliged to accept a repair but everything I've read so far points to my being able to insist on the refund. I feel really sick and upset. The past few months have been so stressful and this is just one extra thing I didn't need. We had to borrow money from family to get this car and I just feel so stupid right now. Should I put it in writing via email and then recorded delivery that I want a refund? I wasn't just expecting this to be easy and if I knew it would fix the car and there would be no more problems then great, but I don't. He just completely ignored my request for him to wait until I'd taken further advice on my rights and said he was arranging the work anyway.

Ask TS for advice on the wording before you email. The more jargon it can cite the less wriggle room for them.

whatsleep- that is for brand new cars

I'd be tempted to take the car back (take a burly looking man with you! ) and argue loudly that you are returning it and want a full refund. You are well within your rights and the fact that other customers are bound to be there too may just convince them to give in to avoid loosing further sales

They are using bully tactics with you, maybe you need to up your game too. Definatley don't let them take it for repairs.

www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-news/34744/rejecting-a-new-or-used-car-top-tips

This might help too, info on who to contact if the dealer refuses.

www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/the-second-hand--car-i-bought-has-a-problem-what-are-my-rights

you need to find out what exactly the problem and if such a problem is not reasonably expected in a 9 year old, 70000 mile citreon

araiba oops didn't notice that! The auto express link should help though

from whatsleeps link:

Rejecting a car should be the last resort once you’ve pursued all other avenues of getting the car fixed. The first thing you should do if you have a problem is contact the selling dealership and take the car in for inspection.

If the dealer offers to fix the problem, make sure you’re aware of any potential costs and keep a record of any work and correspondence. All agreements and offers should be confirmed in writing rather than just verbally, too.

You should be fair when giving the dealer a chance to fix it and sometimes it may take more than one attempt before you've got a valid and strong car rejection claim.

Thank you.

So say I ask a local garage for a service - say halfords since he said that they are usually approved by his warranty company - and ask them to check the car over and let me know their findings..would that be reasonable? Or just ask them what is wrong with it? I just don't want to accept a repair if I don't have to and then trying to strong arm me right now, using the 'you'll be off the road for months' against me does not inspire any trust in them at all.

Thanks for the links. The autoexpress link is focused on the sale of goods act and was written in March 2015, which is before the new act came in and defined short term rejection.