To think that the Jobcentre are absolutely taking the piss?

[BumFunHun]

A bit of background history first of all:-

My dad, aged 60+ (keeping it vague for the purposes PC/data protection/fear this post may backfire to his detriment) moved in with my DH and I approx 3 years ago, after finding himself a little bit homeless, and a lot unemployed and skint.

Anyway, moves in with us, and starts the painful process of 'being a doley' (his words, not mine) for the first time ever in his adult life. He's worked previously since he was 18 in a manual trade.

This is where it gets all kinds of long...so apologies in advance - and congratulations if you read this without falling into coma:-

So, resigned to the fact that at 60+ he's not going to really have too much joy in finding manual work he has experience in, he signs on. Eventually his £76.whateveritis, starts filtering through on a fortnightly basis. Since January he has had to take part in compulsory work placement to continue receiving his pennies. Fine, no biggie, he gets on with it - has attended Every. Single. Fucking. Day since January. 10-4 pm, Monday to Saturday in the charity shop he's been assigned to. Mundane work, where, when asked how his day has been, he considers it a promotion to have been assigned to 'pressing' rather than 'hanger sorting'

Whatever, I digress, he today receives a letter telling him that his benefits are at threat of stopping as the Jobcentre in their infinite wisdom believe he did not attend his placement on 26 April (he did) and hasn't been completing his mandatory hours of 9-5pm (impossible, as the shop he has been assigned to opens at 10 and shuts at 4 - hence him taking it upon himself to do the Saturdays instead to make up the time)

I'm furious for him! I get that they have to enforce these mandatory placements to make working seem a better option for the few that choose benefits as a lifestyle choice - but the man is over 60 (although not quite entitled to any form of pension); has knackered knees; no relevant experience for less exhausting work; and his age against him when it comes to applying.

I'm also mad because (albeit slightly unrelated to the above):-

1. They (JS) made him attend a test to assess his English and Maths levels, despite him being grammar school educated, with exam passes clearly on the CV they made him rewrite to their standard precedent format (which ironically, is pretty crap)
2. The letter inviting him on the course was littered with the most basic grammar and spelling mistakes, he actually red-bic'd the whole thing and handed it in when he attended, joking that he'd completed the English test.
3. He's previously had letters demanding he attend course/appointments with them that are post stamped AFTER the date of said appointment, then been threatened with sanctions for not turning up
4. The most recent letter re the supposed 'failed attendance' was signed off 'Regards [initials, rather than name], so he can't even address a response to a person
5. They didn't check their sodding facts in any way before sending the letter.

Am I being unreasonable to think they are a bunch of penpushing wankers over there, and perhaps they should just give him a nice paid job in the HQ somewhere, proof-reading letters before they're sent, rather than making him work 30 hours a week for 76 quid a fortnight?!

Hit me - I can take it if I am BU.

I can also accept that my post could probably be a fuckload more concise - but I'm in rant mode, and my fingers of fire just won't stop typing....

Ironically, he couldn't give a shit. He's penning a letter addressed "Dear [initials]
[insert required written explanation required no later than 17 May]

Lots of love [his initials] x"

Perhaps I'll just not give a shit too, although his £40 a fortnight contribution to his food and the bills is actually quite needed. Feel better for offloading anyway.

:(

For people criticising my view that it is fine to ask people to work for their dole, the OP's dad works in a charity shop, so there is no "business" benefiting from his free labour, and he isn't replacing someone who could have been paid for that job. I would like to see people on the dole being offered a range of community and voluntary placements so they could choose to do something that uses their skills or trains them to do something else. Work gives skills, self respect and social opportunities, as well as being useful to society.
What I don't agree with is people at the jobcentre sanctioning people for trying their best. If the OP's dad is trying to find paid work and is doing voluntary work in the meantime, then the job centre should back off and focus their energies on someone who is refusing to try. While I agree with making people work for their benefits, I don't agree with people being made to feel like shit while doing so.
OP, I hope your dad gets paid work soon. Maybe he could get paid work in a shop? Older workers have lots to offer in terms of stability, reliability etc, and I'm sure that lots of employers would be happy to have someone with a track record of years of hard work like he has.

Maybe he could get paid work in a shop?

Yes because it's just that easy, isn't it?

Ds spent a period of time on ESA due to ill health.He was in the support group and still got weekly letters requesting that he attended compulsory interviews (not compulsory at all). Many arrived after the date he was due to attend, every appointment was cancelled and rearranged two or three times by the JC and ds got repeated letters threatening sanctions all at a time when he was very unwell. It wasn't until Welfare Rights contacted the JC that the appointments and letters stopped.

Everyone would give up work instantly if they win the lottery so I really don't buy this whole work gives you self respect shit, maybe if you're a high flier it does but frankly if you're on minimum wage busting your ass just to keep your head above water self respect probably isn't what you're getting out of it

Well perhaps all these claimants can come and do your job for free, abd then your employer can replace you. Thus putting you in you into unemployment, and be sure under no illusion. It could come to that. Why would your boss pay you the NLW. When he/she can get free labour, courtesy of this wonderful government.
Still think it's a "good idea", do you

I've typed this before but it still makes my blood boil.
When my DH was unemployed, we had to let our childminder go, obviously couldn't pay for it on one wage. DH was given his time to sign on....during school pick up. When he told them he couldn't make it at that time, they said that if he wasn't available for work at all times he couldn't claim. They simply would not listen to the (pretty obvious) fact that as soon as he got a job, we would be able to pay a childminder. They wouldn't change his time, and we had to beg childcare favours from friends every week to avoid sanctions.
Utterly thick wankers.
Good luck to your dad op.

Absolute fuckers.

so there is no "business" benefiting from his free labour

Arguably there are businesses or potential businesses being harmed by his free labour.

A shop that actually paid its workers has to compete for high street space against charity shops that not only use voluntary labour but are now using forced labour by non-volunteers.

It is a disgrace for any charity to exploit people on workfare.

Oooh don't get me started on Charity shops that take part in Workfare.
I mean greedy big companies. Yes, I'm not shocked, but charity exploiting the vulnerable. The aught to be damn well ashamed of themselves..
Anyway. I'll shut up now, I'll crash the site.

I agree they are arseholes. I signed on for 2 years and decided that the £50 a week just wasn't worth it and decided not to anymore. Yes they are implications of my stamp not being paid etc etc- but having to walk into the JC twice a week, on to the Work Programme sometimes twice (at least once) a week it got too fucking depressing. I'm one of the lucky ones- live at home with my parents so didn't pay rent/board at the time and if I wanted anything I just had to wait until Xmas/Birthday aside from the small allowance I got.

However- they are doing a job. I do agree some need a smack in the front teeth, but I imagine they have performance targets to make and every person who thinks "fuck it" (yes I get that includes me)- they are winning and saving money. That's what they want people to do. That and get the people who can't be arsed to look for a job to actually look for one but i'd like to find one person of that mindset who it's actually worked on

And technically they have a point- if your Dad is missing 2x hours of work a day 5 days a week, that is 10 hours a week so the 6 he does on a Saturday while goes towards it- doesn't make it up. If they agreed it was OK when he started to do it, fine, but if your Dad just assumed it would be OK- well, they have a point.

Bit rich coming from someone who had parents to sponge off for 2 years.

Have a look at the slideshow on this page: www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/partially-paralysed-man-missing-half-his-head-declared-fit-to-work-a7027466.html#gallery "The most ridiculous reasons people had their benefits sanctioned".

Yes, maybe this man in his 60s should stop claiming the dole he is entitled to and move back in with his parents for a couple of years?

The vile way that people are treated by some job center staff has undertones to the way the gestapo treated the jews before they were deported. It takes a certain type of person to sit back and enjoy seeing desperate people squirm.

I'm merely pointing out that if he agreed to do X hours in order to get his benefits and he isn't doing that- then surely he is breaking the T+Cs of his benefit agreement. If they agreed to it- not on. But if he just went ahead and did it thinking it would be OK then it's a bit stupid, no?

I'm appalled that he has to do any work to get his benefits. What the hell is the point of national insurance contributions then.

'Any need expat. No. '

So pointing out what you wrote, that you had a free place to live and bills paid for two years so you didn't have to sign on but this guy deserves sanctioned makes me a 'twat'? Okay. High horse? Pot.kettle.black. You have the luxury of free place to live and lodge so you can point fingers at those who had to sign on and how they deserve sanctioned despite the fact this is a work placement, the JC sends you on those. You don't get to pick and choose. They send you on them.

Most people who sign on have to pay their own rent, food and bills, so when they get sanctioned whilst on a work placement the JobCentre put them on, not only have they not broken the T&C of getting their benefits but also stand a real chance of being evicted, not being able to buy food or pay bills. They don't have the option of not signing on because they don't have a free place to live and board.

Seriously not my point expat.

Let's say OPs Dad agreed and signed a piece of paper to say he would work for 40 hours for free. He isn't doing that- he's working for 36. Yes he is showing willing. Yes he is working. No, it isn't right.

But if he didn't check with the JC that what he was doing was OK- then I don't think he can stand there scratching his head and wondering what went wrong. They don't give a shit. He is a statistic to them. If he signed an agreement to say he would do something and he hasn't done all of it- it's pretty clear to me that his benefits would be sanctioned.

You don't have to check with the JC. They send you on the placement. They tell you where to go. They sort it out. You contact the boss. The boss tells you when to come in. That's how it works. Do you get that point? So they have fucked up if they wanted him to work hours that are impossible due to the opening hours of the shop because they pick the placement. They don't tell you, 'Oh, you need to go and work 40 hours, go find some place to volunteer.' They tell you where to go.

Then I have misunderstood and apologise to the OP.

I mean this in a helpful way and I hope this is not taken the wrong way but if he wants an easy enough job he could try b&q? He sounds lovely and therefore good with people? The pay would be better and he could give the job centre the two fingered salute?

Last time I signed on was 2014.

They always lose documents and then say you didn't fill them out.
It got to the point where they said they don't photocopy anything at that job centre anymore. I'm guessing because I couldn't come back with proof that I did bloody fill out the right form.
If anything goes wrong they tell you they don't deal with it you have to phone Glasgow. So you would stand for half an hour to use their phones then wait again on hold for half an hour to be told you need to speak to the advisor at the job centre. Bullshit.
I don't see what the advisors actually do. I hope they all get replaced by computers and have to sign on themselves.
If you are five minutes late they refuse to sign you on, but if your appointment was a 12.00 and its 12.20 and they still aren't back from there lunch break jacks bit happens to them.

I know it wasn't my argument, but Well done, Yogi for recognising your misunderstanding and offering your apologies. It takes guts to admit when you've been wrong. Yes, even anonymously on here.