To think that the Jobcentre are absolutely taking the piss?

[BumFunHun]

A bit of background history first of all:-

My dad, aged 60+ (keeping it vague for the purposes PC/data protection/fear this post may backfire to his detriment) moved in with my DH and I approx 3 years ago, after finding himself a little bit homeless, and a lot unemployed and skint.

Anyway, moves in with us, and starts the painful process of 'being a doley' (his words, not mine) for the first time ever in his adult life. He's worked previously since he was 18 in a manual trade.

This is where it gets all kinds of long...so apologies in advance - and congratulations if you read this without falling into coma:-

So, resigned to the fact that at 60+ he's not going to really have too much joy in finding manual work he has experience in, he signs on. Eventually his £76.whateveritis, starts filtering through on a fortnightly basis. Since January he has had to take part in compulsory work placement to continue receiving his pennies. Fine, no biggie, he gets on with it - has attended Every. Single. Fucking. Day since January. 10-4 pm, Monday to Saturday in the charity shop he's been assigned to. Mundane work, where, when asked how his day has been, he considers it a promotion to have been assigned to 'pressing' rather than 'hanger sorting'

Whatever, I digress, he today receives a letter telling him that his benefits are at threat of stopping as the Jobcentre in their infinite wisdom believe he did not attend his placement on 26 April (he did) and hasn't been completing his mandatory hours of 9-5pm (impossible, as the shop he has been assigned to opens at 10 and shuts at 4 - hence him taking it upon himself to do the Saturdays instead to make up the time)

I'm furious for him! I get that they have to enforce these mandatory placements to make working seem a better option for the few that choose benefits as a lifestyle choice - but the man is over 60 (although not quite entitled to any form of pension); has knackered knees; no relevant experience for less exhausting work; and his age against him when it comes to applying.

I'm also mad because (albeit slightly unrelated to the above):-

1. They (JS) made him attend a test to assess his English and Maths levels, despite him being grammar school educated, with exam passes clearly on the CV they made him rewrite to their standard precedent format (which ironically, is pretty crap)
2. The letter inviting him on the course was littered with the most basic grammar and spelling mistakes, he actually red-bic'd the whole thing and handed it in when he attended, joking that he'd completed the English test.
3. He's previously had letters demanding he attend course/appointments with them that are post stamped AFTER the date of said appointment, then been threatened with sanctions for not turning up
4. The most recent letter re the supposed 'failed attendance' was signed off 'Regards [initials, rather than name], so he can't even address a response to a person
5. They didn't check their sodding facts in any way before sending the letter.

Am I being unreasonable to think they are a bunch of penpushing wankers over there, and perhaps they should just give him a nice paid job in the HQ somewhere, proof-reading letters before they're sent, rather than making him work 30 hours a week for 76 quid a fortnight?!

Hit me - I can take it if I am BU.

I can also accept that my post could probably be a fuckload more concise - but I'm in rant mode, and my fingers of fire just won't stop typing....

Ironically, he couldn't give a shit. He's penning a letter addressed "Dear [initials]
[insert required written explanation required no later than 17 May]

Lots of love [his initials] x"

Perhaps I'll just not give a shit too, although his £40 a fortnight contribution to his food and the bills is actually quite needed. Feel better for offloading anyway.

Your Dad sounds as though he has a great sense of humour! He's also very fortunate to have family support, he won't be destitute but what you describe just about sums up the wicked system now in place courtesy of the monster Iain Duncan Smith, up until recently in charge of DWP.

YANBU. What you've outlined is absolutely outrageous. I'd be investigating any and all complaint procedures to nail everyone involved.

YANBU at all. Your dad sounds like a character. x

YANBU don't blame the job centre staff though they have to do it, it's the bloody government who are to blame! They're just clinging on to their own jobs, 6 years without a payrise & their terms & conditions eroded! It's shocking!

YANBU, what a shitty situation, utterly depressing that this is what this country has come to. Your dad sounds ace, by the way. Hope you manage to get something better sorted.

It is awful. I wish I could figure out how to tag on here - numberseventeen and WeAllHaveWings, your experiences sound very similar and equally horrific. The appointments are demoralising. He actually doesn't mind in any way doing the mandatory work-although the work itself is on the dull side, it forces him out the house and he gets to meet people, so in some ways he quite enjoys it. It's the fucking principle of the whole scenario and the chuffing letters they send that make my shit itch!

Advice also noted with thanks re appealing/approaching charities etc if his written response does still end up with a sanction as the outcome.

Thanks all for taking the time to reply. I was feeling a bit ragey, but it's subsiding slightly now. He'll be ok. The system is just exceptionally shit, with a 'one size fits all' kind of approach to it, and zero consideration for what goes in the postbox (and when!)

That is shocking OP and you have every right to rant. DH had the misfortune to have to sign on a couple of years ago as his employer temporarily laid him off. With the exception of one staff member in the JC who actually had a modicum of common sense, the rest were officious, patronising and rude. Luckily your Dad has you to take them to task of needs be.

Yanbu - your poor dad. My DP lost his job a couple of years ago and after about a month of jumping through their hoops he was sanctioned for refusing to apply for a particular job. He didn't refuse at all, the job needed a degree in a particular field and was a completely different role to what he was experienced in (think shop assistant applying for a job as a GP) so he pointed this out to the person behind the desk. His money was stopped for months because of that and it took us 2 months to find out that was the reason why. Bastards.

OP, YANBU at all Jobcentre Hassle Plus are wankfaced tossers

I get that they have to enforce these mandatory placements to make working seem a better option for the few that choose benefits as a lifestyle choice

Well, you may, but I don't.

Either there are jobs - in which case people need to do them, or there aren't.

Forcing people to go and do drudgery for less than the minimum wage is like the Victorian fucking workhouse, where they made people turn handcranks all day (the handcranks didn't do anything) just because they felt the poor shouldn't be idle.

Far too many people are swallowing this bollocks about scroungers and fucking austerity.

Phillip Green and the Chancellor should try a few weeks signing on - tossers.

I have to say I met with a DWP employee with common sense and a brain cell, she didn't want yo make work for herself so we played the game until I signed off. I feel very sorry for your dad but I would treat them with the contempt they deserve and let it wash over you the best you can

I would apply for for a job with the job centre if I was him, he actually stands quite a good chance and they cannot discriminate on age !

I find it strange that he was made to do a work placement so soon after signing on. I thought that you only got put on them if you'd been unemployed for a certain amount of time (6 months+) . Has it changed recently?

He signed on not long after coming to stay with us, so approx 3 years ago

Sorry, I missed the 3 years ago part . I thought he'd just signed on recently.

I'm amazed that people are amazed. This isn't incompetence or stupid systems - it's deliberate policy.

People are sanctioned for going to job interviews and for being in hospital - regularly; these aren't glitches. As an added thought for some of you, people on mandatory placements are not employees, so aren't covered by employment legislation. But they do come off the unemployment figure (see: "Government reduces unemployment".)

If your dad's been sanctioned, Bum - and he probably has, as the letter's usually sent after the penalty has been applied - he'll have to follow the reconsideration procedure, which I'm sure you know. It's great that he's got you at his back. These sanctions can, and do, make people destitute.

Good luck to him!

I think it needs to be pointed out that job centre staff do not right the policy. I used to be one of them and have many friends who still are . Most are horrified at the way older claimants are treated. The blame for this should be directed to the person solely responsible. Ian Duncan-Smith. Words cannot express my dislike of the man.

YANBU.

For what its worth - your Dad sounds a right laugh, I'd employ him!

I agree with it being deliberate policy - when I was on JSA a few years ago I couldn't make one of my appointments (ironically as I had an interview). No problem, thought I'd ring them to tell them and rearrange sign-on date. Tried multiple times a day for three days in a row on the number given but couldn't get though the phone just rang and rang for two minutes, then cut off. In desperation tried googling different JSA numbers - they tried to transfer me but again it just rang with no answer. Eventually I drove down there to speak to someone in person but no idea what someone calling that day for an emergency would have done, nor someone without a car, as it's a good £5 bus journey. I even made a formal complaint about it but the best they could say was that it was the correct number and they would 'look into it.'

The Job centre is awful to these people, or perhaps the system is awful and these people just have an unhelpful attitude which sticks the knife in a little deeper.

I used to teach on the English and Maths courses your Dad had to attend and on the last course we ran, 8 out of 10 people were not capable of doing a job and had been taken off disability and told they were fit to work. They really weren't! Yes physically they could get around but they were very vulnerable people who really struggled with everyday tasks and encountering new people. One guy was having so much trouble at the job centre he was constantly day dreaming about killing his advisor and gave a graphic description of a murder-suicide scenario he had been planning in his head. He was in so much turmoil he was close to a break down. I had to bring in our safeguarding team just in case he was going to hurt himself.
Very unfair!

The fuckers! (Government that is, for their crank policies) I did not realise that GarlicShake. Fancy saying they're reducing unemployment by forcing people into work, only those people aren't actually 'in' work at all. Tosspots.

I've always got the old gits back-not that he really needs it, he'll be able to put pen to paper himself to (very politely, but clearly) set them straight! He has some flaws, but on the whole is a pretty awesome kind of geezer

The job centre are a horrible lot. They know my dd goes to playgroup twice a week for 2 hours each day and the woman said to me 'are you going to start working now you have childcare?' 4 hours a week? Who is going to employ me for less than 4 hours a week? (transport etc.. I need to be bang on time picking up dd) anyway i never made her start playgroup so i could work, it was purely so i could have some help in curbing her bad behaviour and so she could get used to being around other children (socialising)

I think it needs to be pointed out that job centre staff do not right the policy. I used to be one of them and have many friends who still are . Most are horrified at the way older claimants are treated.
Sorry, but that doesn't wash much with me. I understand ground level staff don't make the rules, but if they are genuinely horrified, they need to act. I couldn't accept doing a job where I had to treat people like dirt every day.

Yanbu . I sympathise with your DF. He's been treated appallingly. My parents were treated exactly the same. Worked all their adult lives and were unfortunately both made redundant within months of each other and both approaching 60.

Both of my parents were treated awfully by rude and patronising people at the JC. They went on every single course and jumped through hoops even though what they were being made to do was degrading and downright embarrassing. On a 'course' my dad went on they had him basically playing with playdoh in teams for a team building exercise. The people on the course were all 40+.

My mum was constantly in tears and stressed because every single thing she did/jobs she applied for were met with problems and negativity (for example , threatening to stop her money because she wouldn't apply for a job 60 miles away when she can't drive and there's no public transport from our town).

Your dad sounds a character. I hope you get this resolved quickly.

Sorry for my long post

Equally you don't need to talk to people like shit just because you can .... I'm sure they do meet some right characters but they are public servants and should remember who pays their bloody wages

Your poor dad.

I am terrified for my mum. She is a similar age, and has a similar skill base. Looking likely she will be laid off shortly from NMW job. Will have a bit of redundancy money but nothing else. She is a widower so relies on her income to pay her rent and live.

I just hope that when she does end up having to sign on she is treated with a little compassion. And if she isn't I will become a major thorn in my mps side.