Is it me, or should this dinner lady be in a bit of trouble? Or am I just being over sensitive of DD?

[MilliesCookies1]

Using my sister's account (due to a technical reason) and I have already emailed HQ, so this is about my daughter, but her niece.

Anyway... DD is 10, year 5. She has been having some friendship problems. Her best friend has 2 other best friends. She fell out with her best friend as she wouldn't let my DD play this game with them. I said that making up would be the best as they have been friends for years. She went over to their lunch table, her best friend was sitting with her other 2 best friends; she asked if she could sit with them and they all said no and one girl was laughing at my DD (one of the best friends of her best friends) and my DD called her a bitch, I know that was completely unacceptable and I have told my DD about appropriate language now, she has had a punishment for that. However, the mother of the girl who she called a bitch, is a dinner lady/mid-day assistant. She came over and her DD told her that my DD had just called her a bitch, she giggles and said "don't worry girls, I think she's one" and all the girls laughed at my DD. I did ask for a meeting, as I don't think that was particularly fair of the dinner lady, I get my DD should have been told off for saying bitch, but I don't think the mother, who's a dinner lady should start implying my DD is too. They all admitted (even the dinner lady) that she had said everything my DD had claimed she had said. The head teacher looks at me and goes "there you go!" and that was it... No apology (my daughter had to apologise to the other girl) and nothing more was done... AIBU to think that isn't particularly fair? Or AIBU?

[ilovesooty]

I think I'd go back to the head and say that having considered the matter over the weekend you aren't happy with the outcome. Say you feel an apology is appropriate. I don't see the need to involve the governors at this stage.

[katemiddletonsnudeheels]

I agree with ils and think that's a very sensible approach.

[AnneTwacky]

For me, it's no so much the dinner lady using the word bitch, although that is certainly concerning.
My main thought that a member of staff should needs to be professional and shouldn't be stirring up trouble for the children, even if she was annoyed her daughter was called a bitch.
I think you're right to contact the school and just explain that you don't feel your concerns were treated as seriously as they deserve. Your child was being excluded and the adult in authority, who is being paid to help her, joined in with the mean clique instead because her professional judgement was clouded by her daughter being involved.

[Youarenotkiddingme]

Ok so let me get this right?

Your did went to sit in a public dinner hall with some girls - one of whom she's previously been close friends with.
She asked to sit there and they said "no"
She called the girl a bitch.
Dinner lady then implied that in fact your DD was one?

No, your DD shouldn't have said the word - although her use of language was contextual she should have chosen a better one that would keep her out of trouble. Plus the school should do the punishing IMO as it happened there.

But the girls who were unkind have no ounishment and the ADULT who chose to make the implications about your DD don't get any consequence.

My question to school would be a) as you've facilitated the girls behaviour towards my DD and the lunchtime supervisors behaviour how will you ensure in future my DD isn't treated unkindly and can sit where she wants in a public school building and b) you'd like an apology from the girls and the dinner lady for their equally appaling treatment of your DD.

[BoneyBackJefferson]

I would hope that the diner lady has been reprimanded but unless she has been fired you will never know exactly what or wasn't done.

[TheNotoriousPMT]

I agree that what the supervisor said was inappropriate, but I don't fancy your chances of getting a face-to-face apology. Staff disciplinary issues are confidential so it's unlikely you'll hear much more than "It has been dealt with" - even if the upshot is that the woman loses her job and all the supervisors left get retrained.

As pp have noted, midday supervision can be a rather stressful job - managing the behaviour of large numbers of children with whom you do not have a strong relationship can be very, very difficult. And the woman had just heard someone call her daughter a 'bitch'. If this is a one-off, I'd be inclined more towards forgiveness. If it is part of a pattern of unprofessional behaviour, the school will be aware and (hopefully) act accordingly.

I hope your DD was not too traumatised by this incident, but if she learns that verbally abusing people is more trouble than it's worth, that's a valuable lesson.

[Beeziekn33ze]

Dinner lady was unprofessional, was all this recorded in an incident book?
Head was dismissive. ' There you go' is not dealing with your concerns.
Personally I'd want an apology from the dinner lady to your DD, preferably in writing and an assurance that the Head had told the dinner lady in writing that her words were unacceptable. Take it to the governors if you're not satisfied.

If the 'best friend' excludes your DD when with the other two maybe your DD can avoid them all by befriending someone else in her class. I know the ideal solution is for them all to make friends on Monday but this doesn't always happen and mama dinner lady certainly isn't helping. Poor DD, she even asked whether she could join them at the table!

[Beeziekn33ze]

Did you not respond/react to the Head's 'There you go'?
I might have been so taken aback that I just left the room then realised later what I should have said. 'Are you just leaving it there?' springs to mind.

[ExtraHotLatteToGo]

They'd still be peeling me off of the ceiling...an adult, a person in authority over the children, as good as called your DD a bitch and all the Head did was say 'There you go' ??

It's the Head that would be in my firing line with the MDA standing right behind her, then the little princesses who now think they have a licence to be even worse.

I'd have written to the Govenors by now. This is completely unacceptable.

[TradGirl]

Essentially the dinner lady joined in with a group of children to gang up against another child. It's totally unacceptable. Still, makes it clear where the other girl gets her nasty, bullying streak from!

Write to the Head and to the Governors of the school.

[Aeroflotgirl]

Very inaporoppriate and unprofessional of her. I would report her to the head, it is unacceptable for her to say that to other children about your child.

[ilovesooty]

The head is already aware.
The employee has admitted it.

[Iliveinalighthousewiththeghost]

She referred to a child as bitch. Well put it this way. If I did that I'd expect to be in trouble. Wouldn't you.
Oh and you also need a meeting to sort out the bullying, because. That's what it is.

[serin]

I would ring the school tomorrow and ask to speak to the head teacher again.

I would tell her that I wasn't happy with the way this matter was dealt with as your daughter is clearly being bullied and the reason she used the word 'Bitch' was in retaliation to that.

She clearly deserves to be protected by the adults entrusted to look after her and they have failed miserably in this duty of care. I would ask for a copy of their anti-bullying policy and ask the head if she felt the school had acted in accordance with it?

[serin]

Also, I do hope you haven't punished DD too hard OP.

[MilliesCookies1]

serin - we had a talk about what words are not good to use and we spoke about a different way to have maybe solved the situation she said she was sorry and was just sad that the other girl was laughing that she couldn't sit there and that was the 'meanest' word she could think of. I agreed with her that the girl was being unkind and probably was acting like that mean word, but you just can't say it because that's unkind too. That was good enough for me, she has understood and said she won't do it again, if she does, she'll have an actual consequence punishment. I don't want my poor DD feeling like a simple mistake means I too agree with these girls. She feels awful that no one wants her around.

[helennotsomadnow]

But the girls who were unkind have no ounishment and the ADULT who chose to make the implications about your DD don't get any consequence.

My question to school would be a) as you've facilitated the girls behaviour towards my DD and the lunchtime supervisors behaviour how will you ensure in future my DD isn't treated unkindly and can sit where she wants in a public school building and b) you'd like an apology from the girls and the dinner lady for their equally appaling treatment of your DD

^^^ totally agree with this! if a member of staff at school acted in this way to my dd I would be complaining, its totally inappropriate and its an adult joining in the bullying of a child

[MiniMover]

I think she should be fired, actually.
As s teacher, if I said that to a child, I'd lose my job. If my TA (who had children at our school) said that, she would also lose her job. No different. Totally and utterly unacceptable.

The op's DD was wrong but the op recognises this and is dealing with it. That is a totally separate issue to the behaviour of a responsible adult in school.

Are we all now saying that lunchtime staff should be treated differently from other staff? Are they to command less respect from the children? Are they allowed to break confidentiality clauses relating to what they see in school? This is no different.

[Sallystyle]

I wouldn't let this go until there was an apology at the very least. She joined in with bullying and essentially called your daughter a bitch, I would see the head again or take it further. Not acceptable.

[Sallystyle]

I work in care and if I said what the dinner lady did I would be sacked outright as well.

[BillSykesDog]

The Staff should be discouraging abusive language and explaining why it's inappropriate, not joining in.

This. All day long. And the least you deserve from the head is an acknowledgement it was inappropriate and that she will deal with it.

[BoGrainger]

Tbh I think I'd be more upset with the HT's attitude.

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

The dinner lady's behaviour is appalling.

She is a bully. She encouraged the other 3 to laugh at your daughter. She is a grown up woman picking on a 10 year old and is telling them calling other girls/ women is fine. She is also enabling and validating the bullying of your daughter.

[donotreadtheDailyHeil]

You dd should not have called the girl a bitch, but she was being nasty so what did she expect? Are kids always supposed to turn the other cheek and accept the other kids being horrible and never react in an inappropriate way? It seems that they are. Some of the posters on here are hypocritical in the extreme - I simply don't accept that you never do anything wrong in your lives.

The dinner lady was deeply unprofessional but was ever thus. Many of the dinner ladies at my schools (two primary and one secondary) were complete bitches (to use the same phrase). Petty, power-mad and downright nasty at times. I would raise it with your dd's teacher or the head - it is inappropriate and I agree it's misconduct. There is a real problem with so many mothers being employed (or volunteering) in schools. Confidentiality is a big issue, and then this sort of thing happens. Personally I think you should work in a different school to the one your own dcs attend (I accept it's not always possible eg with village schools).

[Whatamuckingfuddle]

I would never encourage someone to try and cause someone to low their sour elf income. HOWEVER in this case the woman is a liability, whether or not she is emotionally involved in the situation is irrelevant. She effectively called a ten year old a bitch and encouraged her exclusion from a group. She is clearly unable to look at situations objectively and needs to find new employment. I'm shocked at the head teacher. Another relative perhaps?