To expect Mum to pay up after 4YO child scratched every panel on our car

[LupoLoopy]

Context: My wife works at a nursery school as an assistant.. Her car was parked in the staff car park, which the kids egress though when they leave, under parental supervision.

During lunch time pick-up, one of the departing 4 year old's took a rock and scratched every panel and light fixture on her car, all whilst his Mum was standing within 6M of the car, chatting to a friend.

The incident was captured on CCTV.

The cost of a proper repair is so close to the value of the car, I fear it being written off, which is something we could afford but would hurt us a lot financially.

Although the damage is only cosmetic, the car was pristine before the incident (I'm a fussy sod who takes good care of his stuff) and I don't see why we should tolerate driving a 'shed' around 'for the children'.

We're trying to seek restitution from the School's insurance (if it will cover it) but to cover our butts, we've reported the incident to the police (so and official record exists) and reported it to our insurer.

If we have to use our car insurance AND we're fortunate enough to not have the car written off, it's going to tank my partners insurance premiums.

Frankly, I want to encourage the police to be fully involved and start proceedings immediately for civil action via the small claims court. I just dont think I can have confidence that Mum is going to be wired in the same way I am - i.e. it's her liability and don't see why we should be financially crippled by her parental inattention.

AIBU?

That link isn't case law. It is woolly enough to suggest it's possible to hold a parent liable but as I've already said up thread, it comes down to the specific set of circumstances involved. As a lawyer I'd guess you'd know all about assessing the likely prospects of success in taking this to court - if there is case law that says yes, parent liable regardless of the circumstances then there's a good chance it would succeed. I'm just not personally aware of any such case law hence my opinion this wouldn't succeed based on the OP's description. It would be interesting to know if such a case has succeeded since I last dealt with these claims.

I'm afraid if you've told your insurance company, it's "on the system" whether you claim or not. I had this happen to me (very minor bump, on a weekend, let insurance co know, took to garage; no actual damage, let insurance co know that...) & it took forever to get the bloody details removed - and the info was shared between companies. :(

Of course she should offer to pay. Or if she's like me and wouldn't have the spare cash to stump up the full amount up front, she should at least offer some sort of payment plan. Rude not to.

Was the mother neglectful.

My DC walk through the car park to go to and from school. The car park is locked and there are teachers on the gate. To me I can have a little chat at the school because until we leave the gate DC are safe.

I wouldn't admit liability as that's the insurance job to decide who is liable.

YANBU there is no way she will cough up for repairs, she probably doesn't have it. So a small claims court is definitely the way to go. Don't go through your insurance unless you absolutely have to. Make sure everything is documented, put everything in writing, send it recorded etc... These things have a habit of getting out of control really quickly (I work in the insurance industry) you are doing everythingn right. Anyone who suggests you should be driving around in a damaged car is being absurd.

Myinlaws, I was replying to oblada - seems the thread has had numerous replies while I was typing too slowly

Was the mother neglectful.

I think it's fairly neglectful not to notice that your child is scribbling on a car with a rock, yes.

To me I can have a little chat at the school because until we leave the gate DC are safe.

It's not about your DC being safe, it's about them not damaging stuff whilst you natter. Being Neglectful isn't always about the safety of the child.

I feel like the parents of the child should pay. But have you tried talking to the parents....? They should have insurance, shouldn't they...?

Going to court may end up really messy/ugly. For everybody involved, especially your wife. The mother could for example claim that your wife mistreated her son... If she has other parents supporting her with this claim? I'm not saying it would have an impact on the legal situation. But your wife could end up being bullied because of it or even lose her job...
You should really try to settle this without going to court. Have you even talked to the parents...?

I had a similar situation although not quite the same. I had two accidents within three months - neither of which were my fault. The car hadn't been repaired after the first accident and the repair costs for both lots of damage meant the insurance company wanted to write the car off.

I told them I was not accepting a write off because neither of the incidents were my fault in any way - like you - and it was up to them to fight my corner and get the damage paid for by the other parties. I reminded them that they were supposed to be on my side. That is what I was paying them for.

That was what they did in the end, although both drivers' insurance companies wanted 50/50 and mine might well have agreed without my being very tough about it because as we all know they love an easy life. I told my insurers at that point to give notice that they would issue court proceedings against the other drivers and immediately both claims were settled at 100%.

They should not increase your premiums for a 100% no fault claim. If they do there will be another company you can find on any of the comparison sites who won't penalise you. They are all very competitive for new business.

Ask your insurers about what they would do for you in this situation.

I would see what the mother says at the meeting and take it from there. Are you going to go to the meeting? I think you should if you think your wife will be too kind and understanding. I think the mother needs to be made aware that if you claim on your insurance company then the insurance company will be coming after her to recoup their loss. Maybe she thinks you can just claim on your insurance and that will be the end of it for her with no thought to your problems.

I don't think the police will be very helpful. They can't charge a four-year-old with criminal damage as he's below the age of criminal responsibility.

I do think the nursery school should have insurance to cover this kind of incident.

Tensions
I dont know any case law. My insurance company told me that they would pay out if i was negligent and lose in court. Also in my case my dd didnt deliberately damage the car, but they felt i was negligent because she was ahead of me and paid out the £600 it cost to repair the car (they insisted on a dealership). I did not admit liability but gave them my name and address.
As pointed out this does not seem unusual because other people on this thread have had claims paid out where children have scratched their cars.

OP
I have since changed industry, and work for a dealership. We dont have a body shop so paintwork is outsourced, so if you go directly to a paintwork company it may be cheaper.

Jeepers! I'm doing what's asked of me by the police and my insurance. I've been asked for their details and i don't have them (yet).

I'd rather not claim if there are other avenues. As said, roll on Monday when i can seek independent advice, as I'm totally lost now :)

www.rbkc.gov.uk/pdf/FPI%20is%20it%20legal%20Feb_08.pdf

It states her the mother is not legally responsible.

Bruffin, I've tried scrolling down to see the details of what happened in your case & can't see it specifically - do you mind me asking the details? Was your DD on a bike? What age was she?

Bruffin, didn't say my case was the same. Was just trying to point out that if .the OP goes via his insurance, his insurance company is very unlikely to persue the claim via the Mother's household insurance AND that if she chooses not to engage at all, they won't even push it, it's just not worth it for the insurance company to do this.
It doesn't really matter if the mother is legally liable for her child's actions or not if the police and the insurance company won't act.
Basically, you are stuffed if a pedestrian/cyclist/child damages your car and they won't do the right thing. The internet is FULL of stories about people being right royally shafted in these circumstances. Solicitors aren't interested either, the hear the word 'child' and they back right off

From the Citizen's Advice website ...

Negligence

As a child or young person you can be sued for negligence through your parent. Negligence is defined as failure to act with reasonable care thus causing damage to other people or property. An injured party has the right to sue for compensation. An example of negligence is riding a bicycle in a manner which results in personal injury or damage to property.

So - no automatic liability but liability if the parent or child was negligent...I'd argue strongly that the parent was negligent here but no idea what the courts have said in practice so yes case law needed!

Even if you won in no claims courts it's a long process to obtain monies. Might need to go down bailiff route which is long and costly .

Yes of course definitely duty to mitigate in any event!