To expect Mum to pay up after 4YO child scratched every panel on our car

[LupoLoopy]

Context: My wife works at a nursery school as an assistant.. Her car was parked in the staff car park, which the kids egress though when they leave, under parental supervision.

During lunch time pick-up, one of the departing 4 year old's took a rock and scratched every panel and light fixture on her car, all whilst his Mum was standing within 6M of the car, chatting to a friend.

The incident was captured on CCTV.

The cost of a proper repair is so close to the value of the car, I fear it being written off, which is something we could afford but would hurt us a lot financially.

Although the damage is only cosmetic, the car was pristine before the incident (I'm a fussy sod who takes good care of his stuff) and I don't see why we should tolerate driving a 'shed' around 'for the children'.

We're trying to seek restitution from the School's insurance (if it will cover it) but to cover our butts, we've reported the incident to the police (so and official record exists) and reported it to our insurer.

If we have to use our car insurance AND we're fortunate enough to not have the car written off, it's going to tank my partners insurance premiums.

Frankly, I want to encourage the police to be fully involved and start proceedings immediately for civil action via the small claims court. I just dont think I can have confidence that Mum is going to be wired in the same way I am - i.e. it's her liability and don't see why we should be financially crippled by her parental inattention.

AIBU?

Well you sound logical and pragmatic to me, and of COURSE^^ in most relationships you discuss jointly the "costs" of jobs and living; that's what partnerships are about. Some people love to project and shriek "abuse", and that risks minimising real life abuse.

I don't think you're milking this, part of having kids means watching them like a hawk and paying for their damages.

Car expenses come as a real shock to people and I am now eyeing up our brand new car (with opalescent paint) with some trepidation!

Some people in this thread are making me seriously

YANBU. At all.

The car was damaged deliberately, an insurance co will want to know that the police are notified. That's procedure and won't do any harm. No there won't be any arrests but it has to be done in the case of deliberate damage.

The repainting costs are high because resprays to all panels of any car IS expensive.

There is metallic/pearl paint, which as far as I'm aware is not a crime in itself, neither is owning a car that costs more than £4,50.

I can't get why people are being so spectacularly thick obtuse about this.

Fudge me - I haven't gone legaled up. It's a Sunday for crying out loud! I just don't want to take any action that would weaken our position should it come to that, like running around the car trying to effect a repair with t-cut! It's a big thread so I appreciate posts will be skimmed, hence me repeating the link.

If someone scratched your car, damaging every panel, you're honestly telling me you'd be totally chill? You're a sweeter soul than me then.

The talk of the gross cost and risk of write off is because that's what's playing through my mind and also the context to determine IABU. If it was just a dent or single panel, I wouldn't even be on here. It's the risk/fear of write off which makes it an issue

Op, you're not unreasonable. Don't worry, there are some really fighty types who'd argue I an empty room.

Just ignore and let them look idiotic.

araiba
"What would you advise op to do if he has third party insurance only? "

He doesn't. Third-party insurance is more expensive than comprehensive.

A long time ago (see my MN name), my baby brother threw a rock through a neighbour's parked car's windscreen. He was about 2 or 3yo at the time (we played out in the streets unsupervised, back then). My parents' insurers paid out. I imagine it was their house insurance and not their car insurance although I was only 7 or 8 yo at the time so didn't really pay that much attention to the final details. My parents were mortified - this was a memorable incident in my childhood - and would not have considered NOT paying up. I hope your mother does the same. YANBU but do be careful and sensitive about your DW's job - there are many reasons other than financial for women to work.

I think the OP is being reasonable. The police involvement is to expedite matters with his/kids parents/school insurers-he hasn't summoned a swat team to go round the kids house, and he's acknowledged eleventy billion times that he's working off best guesses and worst case scenarios for the price.

OP I hope your wife takes someone impartial with her as a note taker to the meeting with the parents. I can imagine things getting heated quite quickly. I would be limiting the chat to your child damaged my car, it is on CCTV, we are getting estimates and I suggest you give your house insurers a ring as my insurers will be on the case from this afternoon.

And who the hell doesn't take commuting costs and hassle into a decision about whether a job is viable?

finer not final

"I don't think you're milking this, part of having kids means watching them like a hawk and paying for their damages. "

That is not correct. Parents have a duty of care. That is not the same thing as "watching them like a hawk"; it would totally depend on the circumstances - e.g., you would be expected to exercise greater care when in charge of a two-year-old in crossing a main road, then in a toy shop with a twelve year old.

The four-year-old child himself is NOT liable, under ANY circumstances.

It's possible that the school has some liability for the damage, but it depends - in the context described, at lunchtime, it seems reasonable to use the staff carpark as an exit, as presumably there are no cars going in and out. And there might not be an alternative route.

Infant/junior schools in general are expected to employ reasonable safeguarding measures such as fences, gates, and so on, so that small children cannot run out into danger. They might for example post a member of staff at the gate, to stop children running out.

There are lots of reasons why parents might not be paying full attention at pick-up time (talking to teachers, etc.), and in general there is very unlikely to be a duty to 'watch the child like a hawk'. Chatting with other parents in the playground is not an abnormal or unreasonable activity, and as such, the parent it would appear has no liability to pay the OP a penny.

Going to expand on my last post now my phone is plugged in and not at risk of dying on me

My daughter went to a nursery where the car park was in front of the entrance/exit. Not only was it an absolute nightmare as far as idiot parking went, it was a safety issue when parents weren't paying attention to their children. Especially when you had cars driving in and out and the idle gossiper standing by. The car I drove at the time was, quite frankly, a sack of shit and I'd probably not have noticed if it had been scratched. If I'd have had a nice car, or even the car I now have (which cost me £3,500) had got damaged, I'd have been looking for the money back to fix it and fix it properly as to not put ME out of pocket. If it was negligence because of a parent not paying attention to their little shit darling, I'd have been pursuing them. Why on earth should I have claimed on my insurance at a cost to MYSELF.

being able to sell on a car in the future is really quite important, if I needed to buy something bigger I would want/need the maximum amount of money from my old car to put towards the purchase of another. Things like scratches and scratches that haven't been adequately repaired DO negatively affect the price because people won't pay the same for a car that is damaged. I've seen 1/3+ of the cars value taken off due to this kind of damage and they become seriously hard to sell.

People who think this guy is milking the situation have absolutely no idea of the actual costs to repair and maintain vehicles.

Oh and I think it's bloody brilliant that you and your wife discuss the ins and outs of your finances as well as the effect that is has on your mental states and wellbeings. Suggesting that weighing up finances or being supportive to your wife's complaints make you a horrible person is fucking ridiculous.

Hi MyInlaws...

Yes. I agree. My first post was an overreaction. I was worried it might be such hence me asking on the thread. I hope you may have noted that my thought process has evolved over the prior 287 posts?

That said, I dont think you may have read all my posts? I stated (at one point) I wanted the police to talk to Mum so she understood the gravitas of what happened and how, maybe leaving your kids unsupervised in car parks isn't the best for their health?

I also clearly said that 'the kid isnt to blame as they are learning about cause and effect at that age'

I also stated that I fear she might try to brashly walk away like nothing happened (fear of worst case scenario) hence wanting to make sure I was legally protected as much as possible (which I doubt is very much) by looking into Civil options.

I hope to be proven wrong in my fear that she 'wont give a shit'

Since we're talking, I hope you wont mind me saying that I think you might be underestimating the potential financial impact of this event as much as I may be overestimating it. I hope you're right rather than I, but we'll find out come Monday.

" he's acknowledged eleventy billion times that he's working off best guesses and worst case scenarios for the price."

Except that his worse-case scenario is he has to pay his insurance company more money, which won't be as much as £8k under any circumstance.

@Mamamea if the car gets written off, I'll be a big bit worse off than the excess, but it's fair to ground this in the fact that I am (luckily)fully comp insured

You have insurance in the main to cover damage you cause to others via your negligence. Not to pick up the bill when someone else's negligence causes the damage. It's not the OP's fault it was a mum and she might not be able to pay. If you replace 4yr old with lazy parent with suited man in Ferrari would all the 'just claim on your own insurance' folk have the same attitude?

Yes, you would lose more than the excess in the event of ANY claim - you would have to take into account future insurance loadings, you could come up with a pretty accurate figure in that respect by doing some insurance quotes.

It being a write off is perfectly likely too. its also something that will negatively effect the resale value of the car until it is scrapped as it will always have to be advertised as once being written off. You will always have people FAR more wary about purchasing these kinds of vehicles. Even if you have the reason for write off and copies of work done, people will struggle to believe it.

Also, my insurance have made no mention of householders insurance for stuff like this. That suggests it either isn't common practice or isn't applicable. Guess we will find out in due course

It is normal practice and it is applicable, however not sure how many people are actually aware they have this cover. It needs to be mentioned to the mother at the meeting, as a i said above the only problem is if she is renting and does not have buildings cover, although from what i can gather some contents cover does include legal liability. I didnt even have to pay an excess when we claimed from it.

Yanbu (or aggressive

I used to deal with insurance claims like this a long time ago i.e. the household ins cover side for cases where someone tries to claim for damage to property caused by a child. If I received intimation of a claim like this, I'd reject it entirely, based upon the information given by the OP. The age of the child means no liability against him/her & I know on the other side, the motor insurer would not litigate to recover their costs (again, I work with that side too) as they'd also know the chances of getting money in these circumstances are v low. The risk of getting nothing is too high for any ins co to take that chance/fund legal action.

This situation would be something the OP would have to take on himself i.e. if he thinks it's worthwhile suing the child's mother to try & get the cost of the repair because he feels so strongly about it, then it would be on him to fund any court action personally because no ins co (in my experience) would fund a case with such poor prospects of success.

I agree with mamamea & myinlaws take on this too - the ins co will have recorded the incident now & the knowledge of the car being at risk of such damage due to the driver's use i.e. travelling to & parking in a nursery car park where this can happen is likely to be taking into a/c now irrespective of whether the claim is paid by them or not. That's my understanding of how insurance premiums are calculated, albeit I don't work with that side of things, only claims.