Should Disney have a same sex couple?

[EveOnline2016]

Just getting views.

This is something I feel like Disney movies should have.

Being in a same sex couple is nothing to hide from children.

Doesn't have to be Elsa Sirona (& I agree that it's also important to have strong characters who aren't paired up). The important thing is that despite many, many children having same-sex parents or themselves being one of the 7% of the world who are LGB, they're not seeing that reflected onscreen.

I think saying that you don't want homosexuality 'shoved down your child's throats' to me is akin to complaining that they made the princess and the frog black. I don't think it's necessarily Disneys responsibility (and I love Elsa being strong and alone!) but I think it would be nice for a gay couple to appear in a movie just because. My DB is gay and I hope that my DD's grow up just accepting that anyone can love anyone and I suppose it creeping into children's TV and movies would add to the acceptance?

Ok I'll give you that Vashta, I'm in a same sex relationship myself and it would be nice to see it a bit more normalised. Not a big thing made out of it as it's not but just there.

Like others my children have been around same sex couples all of their lives. It is their normal and rightly so - because it is normal.

They wouldn't bat an eyelid at Elsa having a girlfriend.

I was shocked last week when my 11yo asked me what bi-sexual meant. Her friend had come out to her via text message and she didn't know it was thing. People fall in love with or attracted to people. There is no straight, gay, bi in our family and social cirlce. Just people. I didn't introduce my friend's boyfriend as his gay boyfriend or make a big song and dance about how it's normal to be gay etc. Uncle X came round with his new boyfriend and we all went to the park, just as we did when Aunty X brought her new boyfriend round.

My kids aren't damaged by this. It's just not a thing. It's only damaging if you make it an issue.

If these things were represented in children's fiction and TV, it wouldn't be a thing for most kids. It would just be.

Disney has always been a sold reinforcer of conservative social norms

Certainly in their films, etc. this is largely true. But over the years, they have quietly, but effectively, been a force for advancing social justice and LGBT rights in my home state of Florida. For example, they were one of the first large businesses in Florida to grant corporate benefits like health insurance to same-sex partners, long before same-sex marriage became legal.

I think it's important for gay/lesbian people to be on children's TV, just like it's important for there to be females (only 25% of film characters are female), people of colour, disabled people etc etc. I think it was Billy Jean King who said (talking about sexism), you have to see it to be it. If children don't grow up seeing gay/lesbian/female/black/disabled people being main characters in films/books/TV then they won't grow up thinking they can achieve. Every parent of a minority child I know spends time seeking out positive role models in cultural material for their children. We know this is a big issue, TBH even those who say there shouldn't be gay characters are really saying the same thing (from the other side): the portrayal of gay/lesbian characters in mainstream films will have a impact on homophobia.

Disney is important because it's so big, they are a cultural leader even if we don't approve of their politics. And their influence stretches so far. One gay character in a Disney film (especially one of the Princess films) would have more impact than a thousand in more obscure art house films.

Well DD won't care so long as Elsa is in it. I'd be quite happy if she had a girlfriend or if she was just happily single for that matter.

Jesus it’s like speaking to a brick wall. No (as I said) lesbians shouldn’t get automatic death immunity but the likelihood of their deaths should be equal to (not much more likely) than the death of a straight male character, and, if you are a showrunner aware of the ‘bury your gays trope,’ and the effect it can have on your audience, perhaps you should consider a) if your character has to die (e.g if an actor is temporarily unavailable due to scheduling conflicts perhaps you could consider writing them off another way rather than automatic death) and b)if yes, what is the least offensive way you could do it.

Many LGBT kids get thrown out of their home, are bullied by classmates, lose friends and family connections, feel unempowered, have a minority of people to look up to in both day to day lives and figures of authority, and are at higher risk of mental health issues and homelessness than straight children, so yes they can latch on to and identify with the small minority of TV characters who are ‘like them,’ and suggests there is some hope in the future, and can then feel betrayed to a greater extent when they are killed off that your average straight teen watching Eastenders.

But I can’t be bothered to engage further with a (presumably) grown woman who has just referred to the suicide of children as ‘ridiculous,’ so let’s leave it there.

In Disneys defence, they've had loads of films which explore different themes to traditional male and female love and marriage, Wreck it Ralph, Pinocchio, Nemo to name a small few. They've made 50+ films which are 'Disney classics' but we tend to judge them on their most popular princess films - Snow White, Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, Beauty and the Beast and Frozen. Of which, Frozen is the only film in recent years and they have tried to move away from the stereotype princess with that. All the others were made at least 20 years ago when attitudes were different. Disney is a business and it's the buying public who keep these outdated characters popular- in the same way as the public in general still love old fashioned fairy tales from 100s of years ago. It's a fact that Merchandise for Disney's white European princesses way outsell Mulan, Pocahontas etc. What are Disney to do? They're just catering to the taste of their mainstream buying public.

I realise I'm missing the point of most of the thread (sort of), but am delighted that the consensus is that Prunella and Pat (adopters of Tabby McTatt) are a couple! I may even show dh this thread now! And if he doesn't accept this point as fact, I may just LTB! ( tbf, he wasn't being homophobic - but a bit ageist - because one has slightly greyish hair and the other doesn't, I think he'd assumed they couldn't have found love together. Wrong in and of itself).
As a side note, I want Prunella 'n' Pat's house. And their life. Wandering off into my own tangent here...

Yes . And let's make them
Ugly and disabled while we're at it.

There's a gay leopard in zootropolis. He's not part of a couple but it's pretty obvious he's gay, I think it probably goes over the children's heads though.

I would guess it's more confusing for children if they don't know that there are same sex couples if they feel they are gay themselves
Hence the need to 'come out'

Yes there should be same sex couple everywhere in media.'adverys etc.
Who gave heterosexuals the monopoly? It's a fact of life now whether some people like it or not.

people give kids less credit than they deserve for taking the facts of life in their stride

I'm straight by the way but it always annoys me you see same sex couples snogging in music vids. But they can't advertise getting a mortgage?!
It's not all about sex. Just people living there day to day lives and doing the weekly shopping and paying council tax like everyone elsex

Quadimodo is disabled and the star if a Disney film. Same with Nemo on a lesser scale (no fishy pun intended!).
I think Disney would be damned if they do and damned if they don't re a gay couple, I'd be happy if they did but it'd have to be done well or it'd seem like jumping on a bandwagon for want of a better phrase and could have some of us rolling our eyes at stereotypes and others up in arms about the 'disgrace' of it. I think a pp was right that Disney films are generally loosely based on folk tales etc so they'd have to find a good one and do it very well.

Elsa is (for Hollywood) a reasonable portrayal of anxiety IMO.

I'd like to see gay characters in the new Star Wars, eg Po thingamy the sexy pilot and the london stormtrooper-now-rebel bloke.

Not a big character but i'm pretty sure the butler in princess sofia is gay?

No. We need to stop forcing these things down young childrens throats. Totally unnecessary.

🙄

Presenting something which is part of every day life as normal, is not 'forcing things down young children's throats'.

Only portraying heterosexual relationships on screen is forcing unreality down young children's throats.

Yes Disney are there to make money, but they're also (sadly in my opinion) very powerful and very influential not only on children but the wider film, television and merchandising community. If producers (they're the ones with the real power) see Disney tackling this, they'll be more inclined to do so in their productions.

Fantastic they're giving employees equal benefits etc but young children won't be aware of that.

Pamdoove, I think it's Lloyd's bank currently running a 'cradle to grave' ad that includes a man proposing to another man, it's a bit 'blink and you'll miss it' but it's a step forward.

Disney is based off the old story books so i think they could write a gay couple in there but i dont know if it would work to have a gay couple as the main characters, since its all about princesses and princes.

I don't really think disney should be writing for every type of person because there are to many people from all walks of life.
Keep it simple.

Erm the genie and robin hoods crew dressing up as females isnt a reflection on TG people.
Cross dressers and trans people are two different things.

Am I the only one who is thinking that it isn't the point right now.

Disney have spent a not inconsiderable time in recent years moving away from romantic storylines (even in Frozen the romance is secondary to the main storyline). They've been exploring some really difficult controversial subjects (Zootropolis) and very different animation styles (Big hero six, fantasia 2000, paper man short).

Essentially they've spent time examining there own history with a critically reverential eye. And they have gone back to innovating in the areas that Disney have always been into innovating (animation itself).

Don't get me wrong I'd love to see a gay or disabled character but the trick would be to make it happen without it seeming forced and without resorting to unhelpful stereotypes. I suspect that would only happen during development when the opportunity to tell a very different story appears eg when the Let it go song was written, Elsa changed from being the villIan of the piece and the story shifted organically to the relationship between the two sisters. Arguably the good dinosaur introduces elements of anxiety in the same way as someone mentioned earlier Frozen does

Many of the modern disney films have spent time talking about redemption and renewal (reflection of where disney are/were in they're own history maybe). Recent/new generation "heroes" have frequently been characters who have the capacity to do harm but ultimately don't (Stitch, Elsa, wreckit Ralph, Bayamax, sadness, the predators). It isnt a natural set up for a gay or disabled character as there is nothing wrong or harmful with being gay or disabled in the first place.

Zootroplis was a definite departure in terms of theme. The redemption and renewal had already happened before the film it was about the problems with sustaining.I think though you could read predators and prey as any relationship between the majority (the ones with the power to eat you up) and minority, which is applicable to race, disability gender etc. Maybe not explicit enough for some but the issues of being a minority are there.

Pixar have obliquely tackled the subject of disability more from the point of view of characters who find themselves in situations they weren't expecting to be in because physically something has gone wrong (even though they are cars and planes). Doc Hudson to a lesser extent, and also Dusty in Fire and rescue. (Although they retreat from it being permanent and give him a new gear box in the end.) Pixar has tended to be allowed to be a little less conservative.

Disney have never been socially innovative in their films and they have still got to appeal to a majorly conservative America. What is interesting is seeing what they are still managing to slide in there.

In short forcing it just wouldn't work.

How do you know that some of the characters in Disney aren't gay? Do you think children watch these films and wonder about the characters sexuality?

Lets take Toy Story as an example (2 year old is obsessed, so we watch it every day). What sexuality are Rex, Lotso, Slinky Dog, Wheezy? You don't ever see them with a girlfriend or boyfriend so we don't know. They could very well be gay. Gay people don't fall into stereotypes, they look like all the other people, the same would be said for characters.

No

I think the key is to do it without making it the focus of the film. My DDs get same sex relationships. Unfortunately, they also get that most of the world around them doesn't reflect their idea of normal, and when it does it's a HUGE deal. Disney is targeting kids after all, and kids are pretty accepting. It doesn't need to be a big deal that Elsa marries a woman when dealing with kids, they'll just accept it. Much more important to have a decent plot, unlike lots of Dismey sequels!