to think the current NHS guidelines for alcohol and breastfeeding are batshit and not conducive to long term breastfeeding

[lemonadey]

I was at a wedding on Saturday, I took 6m old dd but me and dh decided he would be the one "on shift" and I would have a few drinks as its been a while (dd is a bottle refuser) over the course of the day I drank quite a few glasses of prosecco (I didn't count but by the end of the day it probably amounted to about a bottle) but obviously still bf dd at points and I got pretty fed up of the amount of people quite openly shocked at me breastfeeding and drinking. I do get it, the nhs guidelines are basically the same as if you're pregnant even though the way alcohol transfers to the baby is completely different and the amount of alcohol that enters your breastmilk is negligible.

I just feel it is another way for women to feel like their life is "on hold" while breastfeeding, my mum breastfed me and said she never gave a second thought to what she ate or drank and it was a really enjoyable experience for her, it was part of her life, she never expressed or "pumped and dumped".

I wish more women realised you can still have a social life that includes drinking whilst breastfeeding, the current guidelines are so ridiculously strict and just result in judging from other people and unnecessary guilt for mum.

So tell me, AIBU??

Sharknado you do realise I wasn't feeding my baby prosecco..

Really wish I hadn't used the term "life on hold now" , glad lots of people know what I meant though.

YANBU, and other people should inform themselves about the actual risks and/or (preferably) mind their own business.

It's been said before, but if men were the ones who were pregnant and breastfeeding, I think we'd see a very different attitude to research and guidelines. Certainly much less of this, "Well, we're not sure so you'd better deny yourself just to be safe. And if you choose not to deny yourself, here's another thing to feel guilty about" .

I too enjoy wine and am breastfeeding. I read up about the risks and satisfied myself that I would not be harming my baby by having a couple of glasses every now and then. I haven't been aware of any judgey looks or comments, but if I was I hope I'd tell the judger to bog off.

wellerr 2 of my friends over the years have said they wouldn't even try bf as they wanted to be able to go on nights out again and drink.

There are six glasses of prosecco in a bottle

Btw, sharknad0, I actually think we mothers SHOULD be congratulated for putting ourselves first sometimes (given that I don't believe a bit of prosecco would be harmful to the baby anyway). Most of us don't do it nearly enough.

Also, regarding the whole "life on hold" thing -- are people unaware that we all have different sources of pleasure? That taking pleasure where we can is what life is all about, to the extent that we are not excessively harming ourselves or others? And that taking pleasure in judging others might be a problematic habit in itself?

But on topic wellerr when I was feeding DS1, many moons ago, several of the mums in our antenatal group gave up BF in time to be able to drink at Christmas - alcohol really can be the cause of stopping Bfeeding

However, you know that alcohol is harmful for babies and young children, you just chose to ignore it and decide that your social life comes first

Only if your pour it into their sippy cup!

Alcohol and breadtfeeding is totally fine. There is plenty of research about this, in fact its so well known in the scientific community that its fine that research studies have been approved to test the effects of alcohol in breastmilk in infants, there are not ethical objections because we know its ok.

To have a level of alcohol in your breast milk to have any negative effect on your baby, you need to drink enough booze so that you would be dead from it. And even then the toxic parts of alcohol don't enter the breastmilk at all.

Any experts in this area state that there is no justification to recommend any different restrictions on drinking for breastfeeding women compared to any other women. The standard advice on alcohol is fine.

you do realise I wasn't feeding my baby prosecco..

Expecting the NHS to change guidelines to suit you sounds really silly, replace alcohol by cigarettes and you'll understand my point. Passive smoking when your mum only smokes one or two cigarettes a day won't kill you. Would you recommend it?

I really don't understand why some women cannot grow up and concentrate on their babies for a very short time, and why it has to be all or nothing. Of course you can go out, it really is so much easier with a baby than it will be with a toddler. Why do you have to drink more than a glass? Keeping children happy and healthy is the main priority, or it should be. Again, it is really sad.

I am judging, but you did ask.

Kaytee A lot of my friends have said this

itsmine Well it works both ways doesn't it, many people disregard NHS advice to breastfeed for their own convenience. And then make faces when other people choose to have a few wines and breastfeed.

I know this isn't to do with bf but completely agree about the attitude towards pregnancy etc. - some of the things I've been told whilst pregnant;

Had a terrible headache one day, drank lots of water first incase I was dehydrated, it still didn't go away so I took 2 paracetamol and was told by my mum I should really avoid taking it during pregnancy!
My brother was making us dinner one night (steaks) asked how we wanted them cooked, I said medium / rare and he replied that I'm not allowed it undercooked and he would make it well done
I am now on omeprazole for horrendous constant heartburn that nothing else could solve, my mum said she really didn't think I should be taking it for very long - ok I will just suffer even though a medical professional says otherwise.
Likewise been told if I eat potatoes I will end up with GD...
A colleague asked me if I was really 'allowed' to get my hair highlighted and a gel manicure..

The attitude from a lot of people is that pregnant and bf women must be controlled at all costs and become stupid the minute they're pregnant so can't make their own decisions.

Completely agree that the guidelines are way too conservative particularly when considering an older child. The guidelines are very much built around breastfeeding an infant and don't seem to take any account of the fact that one could be breast feeding a 12 month old who will sleep all night (allowing plenty of time for alcohol to leave the system). I do think it's very off-putting and no doubt discourages long-term breastfeeding. Of course it' s possible to enjoy yourself without booze, but I certainly find weddings / hen parties etc a lot more enjoyable with a couple of glasses of wine and very much enjoy a couple of drinks at a BBQ on a summer's day. I think if more people knew that this kind of drinking was compatible with long-term breastfeeding then there would be a much higher uptake. It also feeds in to the idea of mothers and breast-feeding mother in particular being "martyrs" to their children when in reality it doesn't require that much in the way of lifestyle adjustment.
I preferred to follow the advice of Jack Newman etc.

Completely agree with you OP. And the posts on here really support your point I think. People live judging new mums. Particularly if they have the audacity to do anything at all for themselves. It should be all about baby all the time.

I'm breastfeeding my second baby as I type. No wine yet as we're only a week in and I need to be on form 24/7. But looking forward to drinking again after abstaining throughout pregnancy (even the 1-2 units made me feel crappy so just went cold turkey).

I'll be bfing for over a year again fingers crossed and would definitely consider my social life 'on hold' if I could never have a couple of drinks with friends in that time. Pointless when the level of alcohol passed into bm is so very very low.

Sharknado, go and educate yourself on the research and then come back and have a proper debate.

What you're contributing now is baseless sanctimony. Not welcome.

Yanbu OP, and I think you've had some very sneering responses here. There is nothing wrong with enjoying a few glasses of bubbly when breastfeeding. Enjoying a few glasses at a social event does not equal alcohol dependancy. Drinking a bit of alcohol is a totally normal, socially acceptable, thing, and numerous studies show that very little transfers into breastmilk.

The drink aware link that a pp gave indicates research has been done in this area and the best they could come up with was 'baby sleeps less' no doubt they feel this will put parents off mum drinking.

I agree formula companies would love there to be an adverse link.

I say this as a breastfeeding mother who rarely drinks even when not breastfeeding (a unit every couple of months). Neither me nor my dh drink whilst I am breastfeeding as we cosleep.

If I didn't co sleep but wanted to drink while breastfeeding I would have no issue with it.

It's another stick to beat women with, mothers shouldn't drink. Especially when research (although limited) has been done. If you read other threads it's so common for posters to say men should be able to go for drinks after work, to relax and carry on as normal with their life once in a while. I think that's what the poster meant by having a drink. At a wedding with toasts, a meal, a pre wedding champagne etc a bottle is very easily consumed.

I'm on your side OP. I breastfed DD until she was 21 months. If I had abstained that would have been 30 months booze free. I'm not alcohol dependant or even a big drinker, but not being able to have a few wines at a wedding, over dinner with friends or on birthdays and Christmases for 2.5 years per child seems unnessessary, when as you say the risks during breastfeeding are very minimal.

Shark, would you say the same about dads?

I remember being stunned when a midwife said to me "the ideal time to have a G&T is whilst you're breastfeeding, as then none of it will be in your milk!"

The amount of alcohol that goes through your milk is minimal. Obviously, it's not safe to sit there and neck a bottle of vodka - but really that's as much as it's bad for you. A couple of glasses of prosecco, spread out through the day, with food being consumed as well, really isn't something to be concerned about.

That said, of course the health recommendations are to keep it to a minimum. There is a big push both to increase safe breastfeeding, and to reduce alcohol intake as a whole across the country. The recommendations make complete sense.

You don't need to stop breastfeeding to have the odd glass of wine, and you don't need to pump and dump either. Alcohol filters through milk at the same speed, but lower concentration, as it does through blood. There have been lots of tests on breastmilk alcohol levels, and the "if you're sober enough to hold a baby, you're sober enough to breastfeed" is pretty accurate.

sharknad0 is making me laugh with her sanctimonious claptrap that totally ignores all the informed posts and research that has been referenced

Perhaps those who argue that the NHS guidelines (occassional drinking only, don't binge drink etc) are incorrect could post links to the studies showing that higher levels of alcohol consumption are safe.

Penguin, I'd be interested especially in what evidence you based these statements on:

"There is plenty of research about this, in fact its so well known in the scientific community that its fine that research studies have been approved to test the effects of alcohol in breastmilk in infants, there are not ethical objections because we know its ok.

"And even then the toxic parts of alcohol don't enter the breastmilk at all."

"Any experts in this area state that there is no justification to recommend any different restrictions on drinking for breastfeeding women compared to any other women. The standard advice on alcohol is fine."

Links have been posted up thread

What would the mechanism for harm even be?

Breastmilk is slightly modified blood. The level of alcohol in Breastmilk is essentially the same as in your blood. This is what baby consumes.

If you've had enough alcohol to actually kill you your blood alcohol level will be 0.5%. This is about the same alcohol content as a glass of orange juice.

So if you're so paralytic you're about to die, and you manage to feed your baby just before you expire, they STILL only get as much alcohol as they would if you gave them orange juice. And whilst I wouldn't give a little baby orange juice, if I did, I wouldn't be concerned about the alcohol content.

How can such a small, neglible amount of alcohol ever harm a human being? And this is if you are about to die, remember. Just common or garden drunk (staggering, slurring, vomiting) gives you a blood alcohol level of 0.1 %.

I drank while bfing - not excessively, a few beers/glasses of wine with dinner kind of drinking - and I think this contributed to the fact I managed to bf til DD was nearly 2yo. Nearly all the studies I read stated it was fine to drink during bfing and very very minimal amounts of alcohol are passed on. I was very comfortable with my decision.

Also, regarding the whole "life on hold" thing -- are people unaware that we all have different sources of pleasure? That taking pleasure where we can is what life is all about, to the extent that we are not excessively harming ourselves or others? And that taking pleasure in judging others might be a problematic habit in itself?

^^I like you, we'd get on.

Yanbu op at all. So much of the way that new mums are treated is about society controlling women. Sanctimony, judging and striving for perfection are also harmful to mental health btw.