To be pissed off at having just seen my tenants spending a load of cash whilst they're behind on rent?

[JennylovesRosie]

I am fed up to the back teeth.

This is the third month now where they're falling behind.

(I know them by their appearance and we have a mutual friend on a social networking site)

I have just seen them paying for a spa and no doubt it'll be up on social media next week (they like to brag and display all their newly acquired gains in Instagrammed glory.)

Next month my kids won't have the birthday parties they wanted because I'm subsidising these idiots living expenses and incurring charges as for their late/part payments.

Has anyone managed to get tenants out despite then not being 2 months late on rent. The Lettings agency have told me I'm stuck with them . Can I fine them?

They got a 12 fixed contract in January and surprise-surprise they started to default from day one of it.

I'm so upset.

Yes, Hands. I was responding to a flurry of "why does everyone have it in for us loverly landlords?" posts!

Hands off-

Sorry Buckin I realise I may have not been clear there. I should have stipulated that the clause re late payment I insert this:

7.6

The landlord is entitled to terminate this tenancy agreement and obtain a court order to evict the tenant if:

A) any instalment of the rent is not received in full within 14 days of the date when it has fallen due etc etc

Sorry was wrestling a baby at the time!

That's not giving you a reason to evict though, statutory law is. You can do that with or without the clause?

Thanks hands. I'd love to hear more but, er, finish the fajitas first

garlic - the problem is, like everything else on MN, we're only going on what people say on here. When I was saving up for my first home I lived in a grotty North London houseshare. Advertised as being a 5-room house, actually ended up being 8 rooms (some broom closets), dodgy wiring - all the usual nonsense. When I left I reported my LL to the local council for two pages worth of non-compliance, and sued for 3x my deposit. I would put money on that piece of shit LL being down the pub with his mates and going on about just how good a LL he was and how his (young, female) tenants took advantage of his lovely nature.

You're right, in short

I have to say, when I went into property I was kinder and more open to tenants in complex circumstances. Now I'm harder, having been burned one too many times. The house is legally compliant and safe, but I have stopped offering "nice to haves" - my expectation, from experience, is that tenants will abuse the property to some extent. (This is a) small HMOs and b) in the "rough part of town", to be fair.)

Sorry I can see now essential has asked the same thing

For about eight months, my tenants were constantly late paying their rent. They did always pay in the end, but every month there would be a new excuse and I did get really fed up with it. They were paying well under the market rate so it wasn't like I was squeezing them for top dollar.

I finally lost patience and called the other half in the couple to explain that I was annoyed at the constant lame excuses and late payments and we needed to sort it out. It turned out they had no idea the rent had been late every month because their partner had been keeping it quiet. They had been in a financial tight spot but were afraid that if they were honest with me, I'd chuck them out. It was a bit sad because they'd been there for years and I've always encouraged them to talk to me and let me know straight away if anything needed doing in the flat.

Fortunately, we did manage to sort out a better date for them to pay rent so they weren't left short and their financial issues passed. I have asked them to be honest with me and if they have difficulties, to talk to me and we can try and work something out and I think they feel more comfortable with doing that now. They are actually really good tenants otherwise.

Why do people get pissed off with landlords like the op? Because she hasn't made the effort to gain a cursory knowledge of tenancy law and relies on her letting agent to advise her (landlords AND tenants despise letting agents equally IMO, they are useless, bottom feeding chancers in the main who don't serve landlords or tenants' interests, but their own).
Accidental landlords expect to have their asset and eat it too. If you want t keep your asset then understand that the process of doing it is not low risk, you are entering into a business and you have a legal and moral duty to understand your duties to tenants and their obligations to you (not whatever they sign up to in the tenancy agreement btw)
If you aren't in for that then sell your house and lubricate the market. I'm accused of being jealous and bitter - fuck yes I am. I'm priced out of buying, even if I had a deposit of £30000 (which is impossible to accumulate due to extremely high rents) I still wouldn't be able to raise sufficient mortgage to buy somewhere I'd be happy for my child to live. The housing market is fucked and accidental landlords are a huge part of that.

accidental landlords are a huge part of that.

No, greedy BTL landlords are the huge part.

I am confused; are people saying that they are managing to get evictions if rent is more than 14 days late?
Has section 8 criteria changed?

Ok
Accidental landlords are a significant and very annoying part of that

Much as i think some posters have been a little harsh, I do sort of agree with them.

It's the main reason I sold my flat rather than rent it out - as no way could I afford to take a few months of a non paying renter. As some have said, sounds like you're in the wrong business.

I would ride these tenants out and then sell if it were me.

Doesn't excuse their behaviour btw. I'm currently renting and my rent goes in the same day every month without exception. I've spent over £1k of my own money so far on doing it up (as landlord thought it was 'fine' but I disagreed..new carpets etc) . Not all tenants are bad. But I certainly wouldn't expect my landlord to be looking at my fb profile and passing judgement.

I'm an accidental landlord and I try very hard not to be part of the problem.

I manage it myself, the tenants just text or call if anything needs doing and I do it within a couple of days. The only exception was a boiler issue which took longer because I was let down by a heating engineer at the last minute, so I gave the tenants some vouchers to apologise.

I'm always very conscious of the 15 years I rented and how shit some of the landlords were.

Here's a little story about the property ladder and being an accidental landlord:
Dear friend and former neighbour of mine bought a house far away and put her own house on the market. House got no offers, leaving friend with two mortgages to pay but income enough for one.

Friend met a couple at a party who were looking for a place to rent, with a move in date soon after the move out date. Hurray, problem solved, thought my friend. A lease was exchanged. Tenants moved in shortly after my friend and her family moved out. All good so far. Then the breadwinner of the tenant family died seven months into the lease. Rent was paid but all the same there was evidence of problems -- tenant didn't call to report repairs that were needed or mow the grass as stipulated in the lease. Lease was renewed all the same. My friend didn't like to give her tenant notice of not renewing the lease as it was a delicate situation, so soon after the death.

The second year marked a long, slow slide into chaos for the tenant, and increasing worry about non payment of rent on the part of my friend. Eventually the tenant's parents got involved and persuaded tenant to move back home with them. So the next tenants were found. There was no agent involved in any of this -- my friend and her DH printed their stock lease off the internet. They wanted to save money where they could. New tenants couldn't sell their own house and wanted to move into the catchment because of good schools. My friend and her DH figured this was evidence of good character.

Of course things went to pot soon afterwards, but again, my friend wasn't willing to confront the tenants personally and wouldn't pay a lawyer to do it. Eventually, deterioration of the house thanks to neglect by the tenants and sheer vandalism by their feral children caused massive headaches for everyone, including neighbours trying to sell their houses. Thanks to spotty rent payment and the odd bounced cheque, the bank then gave notice of foreclosure.

Friend at that point had to get a lawyer involved and eventually was able to short sell the house. Was it bought by someone willing to put in long hours and lots of elbow grease and lovingly render it habitable? Of course not. An hour after the contract was signed a house turner-over's trucks and landscaping crew arrived, and in two weeks it was on the market again for eight times the price the turn over dealer had paid for it. A couple who were selling their house at the other side of the country moved in, delighted by the smell of fresh paint.

My point being that if rental properties are allowed to go downhill they can get to the point where new home buyers are not going to be able to buy them because turnover builders are going to offer more and have the capital to restore them. The market is going to be lubricated but not the way it might benefit most people. I think amateur landlords (for want of a better word) do have a lot to answer for. If not 'amateur' then LLs who are penny wise and pound foolish and either want to do it all themselves or leave it to leasing agents who are most likely useless.

Bloody hell, this has turned into a bun hurling fight. All because OP has expressed her opinion that once a contract has been entered into, it should be honoured.

I've rented, owned and been a LL. Not once did I think I had the right to stop paying rent to "The Man".

How strange to read that some posters believe it's their right not to pay rent. You wouldn't just walk into Sainsburys with a trolley-full of goods and inform them, after packing goods into your trolley - I'll pay 50% now, and the rest when it suits me. Because I've booked a naice holiday, and that takes precedence. Surely keeping a roof over one's head should be paramount?

Yes, there are crap LLs. I spent a lot of time with the person who would clean for me, at the council offices, then environmental health, to sort out the mould, which was causing her toddler Asthma. Until the appropriate agencies got involved, her LL refused to do a jot about it. Her and her DH never withheld rent, in spite of their dire living conditions.

Where did you read that?

How strange to read that some posters believe it's their right not to pay rent

On this thread? Posters on this thread have said that?

How strange to read that some posters believe it's their right not to pay rent

Which fucker said that? Certainly not me.

Don't recall calling anybody a "fucker".

Perhaps rtft in it's entirety?

It's a big thing amongst some tenants that they dislike landlords even though most landlords just have one property and soemtimes their own home too and plenty have moved jobs to another city and have to let out their home as they cannot yet buy etc. People are very jealous of others in the UK today rather than thinking - well done you, I could do that, you are a good example to me.

I have read the entire thread
Ok, which person Said that?

Handsoff- good landlords are great, and very necessary. A landlord who accepts the risk, acknowledges their responsibilities and treats tenants fairly is gold. The housing market needs landlords, and they should be good ones. I've had 2 good such landlords (both in long term rentals) and 2 accidental landlords who were fuckers who caused me stress and lost me money.

Any notion of answering the questions mantra?

Also those "turnover" buyers who do somewhere up and sell it within the year I think have been rendered almost all unprofitable since 6 April as they now have to pay an extra 3% stamp duty which is pretty much all the profit they make in many cases. So we really are in interesting new times in that respect.

well done you, I could do that, you are a good example to me.

Well done you, for borrowing more than you could afford, spending more than the house was worth and then being unable to get that money back when the bubble inevitably burst?

The attitudes to LL on MN is fucking despicable. There's a renowned hate and almost scoffing at the thought of people having to pay rent for the house they live in round here. Rather than seeing tenants who don't pay (but can afford it) for what they actually are - thieves . Do people now have empathy for those who are being stolen from? If not, why not? Remember not every LL uses it as a business, they do it because they can't sell their homes and need to move to a larger house.